What is this?

This is a single very very juvenile leaf of an unknown aroid a friend of mine has had in her collection for many many years. She has never known what it is. She thinks she recalls buying it years ago at either Marie Selby Gardens or Fairchild Gardens at a sale.

Although the leaf here looks tripartate, the mature leaves are much further divided and the plant gets very very large, about 3 ft tall. The stems are pictographical, like the stems of things like Alocasia tigrina and Alocasia Nishihira and others

My friend is moving out of state and is giving me starts of some of the more rare things that she has before she goes.

We do not even know the genera. We only know that it is an aroid.

Any ideas?

After it puts out a few more leaves it will be easier to ID.

I don't have a clue but it sure is a cool aroid!

Scott

Wait til you see it big. When I go out again to my friends I will try to remember my camera and get a photo of hers

Not sure but it looks a great deal like the adult leaves of Cercestis mirabilis. Take a look at the adult photos in this link:

http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Cercestes%20miribalis%20pc.html

Steve

No, its not. I have been growing that for several years. This has no pattern on the leaves, they are a uniform green, and they divide, which my Cercestis has never, ever done. You'd have to see the mature plant to understand

This is a photo of mt C. mirabilis, pictured here with Philo gloriosum and A. luxurians x dresslerii. The mystery aroid has absolutely nothing in common with C. mirabilis

Like Metrosideros stated.. post more pictures when the plant in question mature's a bit more or when you add pic's from the mature plant from your friend. I am positive a good I.D. can be given then.

You are likely very correct.

However, few people have ever seen the fully adult form of Cercestis mirabilis as it grows in Gabon, Africa. I spent a good deal of time last summer trading information with Dr. Josef Bogner who is one of the authors of the scientific text The Genera of Aracea. Dr, Bogner is one of the few scientists that has traveled deep into the rain forest of Gabon and surrounding countries to study Cercestis mirabilis and the related genus Rhekotophyllum. The photo attached is one of his photos.

He informed me that as the plant continues to climb it eventually looses all the pattern and becomes totally green. In order to morph the plant must be allowed to climb and it often reaches 20 meters.

I doubt your plant is the same as shown in Dr. Bogner's photos but at least it does closely mimic the shape of your plant. There are other related species that are similar in appearance, Many aroids morph as they mature and the adult leaves look nothing like the juvenile plants we grow. Despite the fact many of us think we are growing the adult form of Cercestis marabilis no one I've ever found in the United States has the adult form.

We discussed this at length last year on the International Aroid Soceity forum Aroid l and everyone that posted "adult" leaves only had juvenile plants according to the botanists.

If you can get photos of the fully grown form of your friend's plant I will gladly have a number of aroid botanists take a look.

Steve

This message was edited Jun 4, 2010 7:27 PM

Yeah whatever Exotic.

I think it may actually be Anchomanes difformis. Its a truly far cry from Cersestis mirablis, in spite of whatever you discussed at length on the International Aroid Society forum. Since its definitely a juvenile and not the adult form I can guess you are reaching here.

But thanks anyway.

I sincerely apologize for annoying you. My only goal on this or any other forum is to try to help provide information. You obviosly do not appreciate my efforts so I will be certain not to respond in the future to any of your posts.

Of late, several members have had excellent conversations which have led to determination of a good species name. Again, my sincere apologies.

Steve

WOW gothqueen that was VERY rude. I really hope you didn't mean it that way.

Geesh Goth! I thought we were all learning together here on the Aroid forum which is now including more knowledgable people than you and I. You grow nice Aroids gothqueen but what is wrong with learning more about the collection of plants that we try to grow out of their natural environment?

Chill!

Rachel Falwell

Sorry but not everyone wants a scientific treatise every time they make a post. I've seen ERF in action on more than one forum over the years and eventually his 'expertise' starts to wear thin. How long were you gone from Dave's Garden the last time? Since about 2006, right? You seem to flit from forum to forum on the Internet trying to 'teach' everyone and when they get tired of you on a forum and either ask you to stop with your undesirable habits of self promotion, name dropping and general lengthy wordy 'teaching' posts, or they just flat out start to ignore you, you get your feelings hurt and pack up your game and move somewhere else.

I'm not a plant 'expert' on any type of plant, Rachel, and I can look up the data ERF regurgitates here and on other forums for myself if I choose. I just grow them, I don't claim to be an expert on them.

My plant was positively ID'd for me on another forum that is very much more international in its membership than this one in, oh, about 5 seconds and about 5 words and a photo. A quick comparison to the mother plant confirmed it. No treatise.

The plants in the genus Dracontium and Anchomanes look very much like the juvenile in the picture shown on the first post. I have several and it is interesting to see how the smallest juvenile leaf can be entire, but as new leaves are produced, they become tripartite, then subsequent leaves are even more divided. I assume the plant goes dormant like Amorphophallus (mine do). Does the petiole have spines (small or large)?

The picture here is Anchomanes, although I have no species name for it.

LariAnn

This message was edited Jun 5, 2010 10:44 AM

Thank you Lari Ann, yes, the mature mother has small spines on the stems, and the leaves do get more and more divided the larger they get, and yes she says it does go dormant in winter even if kept in tropical conditions, but comes out like gang busters. Your photo looks a whole lot like hers. Someone from anither forum told me about it probably being Anchomanes and I let my friend know, she searched photos and compared to her plant then recalled that she bought the plant from Tropiflora when they were at Selby once for a sale, and when we checked they had sold A. difformis in the past. So we are pretty certain of the ID.

Here is a pic of the flower. I got to say....Im with Steve, before close inspection I thought it was Cerestis mirabilis too. I wouldnt have guessed it If I hadnt pulled mine out of the back of the GH yesterday and divided it up.