I have several violets that are developing very tight brittle leaves 2 are variegated foliage and this trailer "Kentucky Shine". I don't see any evidence of mites but even by reducing light exposure I am not able to loosen the leaves on any of the 3 that are doing this. Others under same condition growing well.
I guess I should destroy them and go on, but I would like to make this a learning experience, at least.
HELP, PLEASE!!
Hi There;
It does not look good, i think i would toss it, if it were me. check your other plants also , it looks like mites to me, but i could be wrong.See what everyone else says.
Mrsbonnie
From what I've learned over the past winter mites, too much light and too much fertilizer make tight centers. I over fertilized and had some tight centers tho I don't think they were nearly as tight as those look. Like mrsbonnie I'd be worried.
I found this advice awhile ago and copied it into a Taking Care of Violets document that I keep.
Part of an AVSA article for determining the cause of tight centers.
"The second article was a simple checklist for tight centers. Here is what it said:
1. Place a piece of toilet tissue over the center of the plant for one week. If the center opens up your problem is light intensity.
2. If center is still tight after a week it could be a pest or fertilizer problem. If leaves are curved up or down on the leaf margins and distorted, it is likely a mite problem.
3. If there are no twisted or distorted leaves in the center, it is usually a fertilizer problem. Cut back on fertilizer for a month and you will see a marked improvement.
4. If there is not change, consider when the plant was last repotted. the more rootbound a plant becomes, the tighter the center will grow. If this is the case, simply repotting will solve the problem."
I agree with the above advice.If you decide to keep it,give it a bath in warm soapy water with a little bleach or Hartz Flea and Tick Shampoo.Whatever you decide,be absolutely sure to keep it away from all other plants and don't touch other plants for about 30 minutes after touching this one.Just washing your hands doesn't do it.Right now I don't see gray,twisted hairy centers like Cyclamen mite causes,but it could be other mites.Often over fertilizing can cause the same problem.I would bath the plant,let it dry,leach the soil 3-4 times with lukewarm water,place in window light (not direct sun),and see what happens.At worst you would still have to pitch it,but you would learn.Also,wicking minis or semis in rooms that are too hot can cause very tight centers.
Lynn
Lynn, interesting that I had decided I was going to try a complete wash, but was not sure what I could use. Then I get your post. Thanks.
I was unaware that heat could cause tight centers. Under my circumstances that is a possibility.
From the look of your residue on the side of the pot. Fertilizer Probs.Too much.
Also could be hard water. Growing for shows I would trek water from a spring.
you need to check your waters PH - you need be 6.5 and 7. That Plant is history but set down a few leaves and then....Don't get everything you have invaded, just in case.
I am learning about too much heat. I have set outside, some plants to root and tiny rooted plants and also some on my window, I notice tightening up - curling up - I have never grown AV here in Fl. and I thought the warm - all in shade would get the leaves going that some of you have sent me. (TU) . Well they are sending babies quickly - "Fisermens Paradise" from "tish" is amazing. but after reading all your input , they are coming in, to Ac 76 degrees that is what we have it at. This change in only 3-4 days as it got so much warmer.Wasn't sure what's happening. Av don't want too hot...
Summary: your plant is not well - water too hard- does not digest the food you are giving
No saving other setting down new leaves. if you loved it do 4 leaves, 2 in each solo cup with 1/2" soil in the bottom.Keep moist. Man they do make babie s quickly.
For Special plants use Spring water in bottles. Not filtered water.....We love them because they are a challenge.
I've had some luck with overfertilized plants by repotting and setting them in another room and neglect them...they came back better than ever and I figured they would just die. I didn't know it was over fertilizing and so I just wanted to isolate them away from everything else and the neglect was accidental.
tish
I have a question. Over this past fall/winter, I lost most of my plants to either bunched, tight centers, or centers with tiny leaves, often with nearby suckers, which also had tiny leaves. Since there were so many,I finally made the decision to toss them, just in case there were bugs(which I was unable to see w/ a 30x loupe), and as due to limited mobility, my ability to repot was limited. I have subsequently been able to rescue a few, but the problem continues to evidence. I would dip for mites anyway, but miteacide is not currently in the budget. and I really do not think it is the problem. Some plants seem to respond to decreased hours of light--some do not. I also noticed that this usually occurs just after the plant blooms.
This is my question--Does anyone use superthrive, and if so, do you use fertilizer in addition? I use 1 drop superthrive w/ 1/4 dose fertilizer per gallon, and at the end of each month--just dechlorinated water. The problems exist in my wicked and hand watered plants--and my plants in windows as well as the ones under lights. Any suggestions ? I am at a loss.
Another example--both these plants were tossed months ago.
Hi There;
I do use superthrive sometimes along with my fertlizer & never had this problem. I must say this does not look good, looks like mites,because of the bunching, if you have tried less light & still the same problem, it's probably mites or something like it. I would toss all the plants if you can't afford the chemical. I know it's expensive. I can start you off with leaves & probably a few plants if you like.
mrsbonnie
It does look like it could be mites.I had a similar problem last year.Some I tossed.Others I bathed in the flea and tick shampoo and some came out of it,but it took a while.I just recently started using Superthrive and it doesn't seem to hurt the plants at all.
Lynn
Well, my goose is cooked if it is mites, as I frequently move things around to please the plants light-wise. The plants in the pics are long gone and also the victims of my clumsy attempt to raise their pH w/a lime mixture that caused the wicked plants to become coated w/beige gunk and made a mess of the tray. Turned out the prob. was not pH anyway. Most recently, many of the remaining plants are doing better when moved to a shelf with less light--my shelves are not the standard ones, and the lights, though weaker than shop lights, are closer to the plants.
S. Concinna--seeds of which I hope are lurking in the tererrium which I just discovered is as dry as a bone! Arrrgh--I give up!
Hey, don't give up, happens to all of us.If you lose most of your collection, we will send you more i am sure.Did you try the dog shampoo? might be worth a try.
mrsbonnie
I have had a lot of problems with the brittle leaves too and I guess I need to try the flea soap. I hate to toss plants but I don't want other plants to get infected. Is it is good idea to spray the flea soap on everything? What ratio to water do you use?
Thanks,
Pat in Orlando
Pat,
I can't remember until I get home this afternoon and look.It's either 1 or 2 tablespoons per gallon of water.I filled a sink and dipped the entire plant,letting it run into the soil.I used gloved hands to hold the soil in the pots.No need to rinse.
Lynn
2 Tablespoons per gallon of water.I wouldn't know for sure if it kills mites,but if it works on fleas and ticks,why not try it.It did not harm any of my plants.I used the citrus one.It's orange and spells pleasant.
Lynn
Can you see the ingredients on the label--if you still have some? I think the more important question is...will it kill the mite eggs? It would be worse if I thought I had the problem licked just to have a new flush of mites come along and devastate a new collection. Also, as I have never seen a mite w/my loupe, and my other gessies and plants show no damage, is it really likely the problem is mites?
Jan.
I am not sure your problem is mites.Tight centers can be caused by too much light,heat,wicking AVs in the summer (especially minis and semis),and a host of other things.The shampoo is NOT a miticide.For that you would need the expensive stuff,like AVid or Kelthane which is cheaper,but harder to find and is a harsh chemical.
I used to use all the chemicals,but as I have grown older I like to use things a little less harsh on me!!Although they still contain some bad ingredients,I prefer to use things like shampoo,bleach solution,sulfur,milk and water spray,vinegar,Lysol,etc.Most of the time these will take care of most problems and do not harm either you or the plant (and are way less expensive).
I will try to take a picture of the back of the flea and tick shampoo and post it.
As far as mites recurring,if they are actually there,it would probably require at least a second treatment of anything unless you use a systemic.Also if the crown on a violet is already damaged it may die anyway,but if the rest of the plant is healthy a new crown will form.
Lynn
I used to have such pretty plants, and no camera. Now I have a camera, and few plants worth photographing. :-(
Okay Lynn, I have tried this on a group of plants and I will have to see how it goes. Seems like some folks have no trouble growing AVs but for some reason for me it is like pulling teeth. Sooner or later I have to get the hang of it, right? LOL!
Pat
I am finding growing AV in FL is very difficult. Outside in shade too hot - centers get tight - inside even though AC is 78 (good temp for AV) air is too dry. so they don't grow at any rate they just exist. Working on it - as to how!
Up north I grew beautiful show plants, but that was....
Helene
Helene,
A lot of people grow them in nursery trays covered with eggcrate type gridding.You can buy the gridding at Lowes or places like that and cut it to size.The water in the trays below raises the humidity quite a lot.
Lynn
I had some violets in an area with limited air-conditioning. It would be 80 during day and 70 at night. Most of those plants developed tight centers like your pictures. I moved some to a room at constant 70 and the plants improved over several months. Light, fertilizer and humidity were similar in both locations. I never saw mites under magnification either. Alabama is hot, Florida must be worse.
Ladies thanks for your input. every bit helps.
Here on the shore it doesn't get quite as hot as inland. We hover around 90 degrees. Inside 78 AC.
Right now I don't have many. So I play around as to location. Something will work.HD
I have decided that I have been leaving the lights on too long, so I am shortening that and also not going to fertilize for a few weeks. I was fertilizing weakly every time but maybe it is too much. It is funny but the minis seem to do better for me than the standards. Maybe they are hardier?
Pat
Pat, funny you should post your results today--just tonight I am noticing some of my tight centers are improving after I made a concerted effort to be more organized and decrease/monitor both light and fertilizer. I was sure this plant was a gonner--hope I didn't toss >100 plants for nothing...Label my mood labile!
Harmony's Pinkstone
That one's a beauty Jan!!
Too much heat can cause tight centers and sometimes wicking makes the problem worse.We have had an extremely hot summer this year and I have noticed moving plants around helps.You can also shorten the hours to 8-10 or so and run the lights at night when it's cooler.
Lynn
Lynn, I did exactly that this summer, starting in about June--and I am just now starting to see a difference. I was running the lights for 12 or more hours, and the window plants had a longer day as well--I decreased the lights to 8 hours, and I do not open the drapes til much later now. What's left of my plants, many of which I was considering tossing, seem to be improving.
When I had many - I grew them under lights and most of them only 8 hrs. Show plants to be were on a light schedule accoding to the book "AV Grow to show".
Fertilized 1/4 tsp per gallon and poured the water into the trays which were covered with white wool blankets sitting on top of egg crate. SOOO the violets only got watered perhaps every 10 days when the blankets were dry and the violets semi-dry, so to keep the cap. action going for next watering. had beautiful AV's. Also this was in NY - had a humidifier for them. Fan in summer..... etc.
Pic is: AV Pushover, set up in the whole room,AV Happy Cricket, AV Red Ferrari. 20" Fan to show the size of the plants. These were all winners in show.
As you can see the AV's have only 3 rows of leaves - they were just beautiful.
This message was edited Jul 13, 2010 1:13 PM
testing...
Well, my computer seem to have recovered--tried to post this numerous times this afternoon/evening. Helene--your set-up was beautiful--the kind I dream of....some day. I have a make do set-up, concocted of on hand shelving and make do lighting. My fear was these lights were too weak and I think I overcompensated by leaving them on too long and having too many. The past couple of days I am seeing the first signs of recovery as shown above-hope the recovery continues, and the plants keep blooming as well. I still can't believe Harmony's Pinkstone is blooming--I think it has been about a year since it's last bloom!
(edit--FYI...this post took >30 mins to upload!)
This message was edited Jul 14, 2010 2:31 AM
wow, Helene,those violets are real beauties.You should be so proud. beautiful set up too.
mrsbonnie
You both have beautiful plants. I hope to conquer the challenge of growing AVs at some point. This is only my second year growing and apparently I should write a book on how to do it wrong, LOL.
It will be interesting to see if mine start growing better. I threw out many, many plants!!!
I am starting some leaching too as I water and see if that helps. I found a pH neutralizer in the pet store that is a powder and I just add a pinch to a gallon milk jug. It also removes chlorine, etc. although I am told that some minerals are necessary so sometimes I just use tap water and just a little vinegar to lower the pH since my pH is so high.
My local AV society had a show this past year and the one african violet I entered elicited some really harsh comments from the judges such as "This has so many things wrong with it, I don't know where to begin." That got me cleaning up my act and changing how I grow plants pretty fast. I am not sure wicking is working well for me in Florida. I seem to be having worse problems since I went to wicking. I do very well growing other gessies but I don't wick those.
Pat in Orlando
phoebesviolets: from pic.just my thought. too close to lights for growing.
Light too concentrated because only 2 bulbs, perhaps not important
if you use "Grow Lite Bulbs" you have to special order in electric supply
Pic took long to upload - edit pic. to e-mail quaility on your camera
software.
zozzi choose violets that start with perfect centers Get names of AV that
show well for others. Keep removing outer - older looking leaves.On my
show plants only 3 rows of leaves. The spent leaves sap more energy from plant - that's all part of constant grooming. Wicking is ok for a few for home growing.
Better: those plastic things for floresent lights cut to size of your trays. White thick blankets _white:see the algae_cut to size, let the blanket hang into the water and you have capillari action going on.The plants need to be moist to start this action.it is fun to get involved. "Grow to show" paulin Bartalome ? is a good book to learn timing and such.
While I was following this- there was a hybridizer from Tampa - she never had good show plants in the conventions. Fl. is not good to for AV even older ones..lol like me
http://www.african-violets.com/index.htm
This lady has beautiful stuff - she is with the AVSA judge and all. Wonderful tips for growing and grooming and RX for soil.....
This message was edited Jul 14, 2010 8:56 AM
I came across this - not mine. Want to demo, if I may?. I know we don't want to show but still want pretty plants to look at.
this is a perfect formation for a showplant. Even at that, the 3or 4 visible lower leaves that are shorter then the upper should be removed at the stem of the plant and some soil filled in to cover.
In a show there is a rule how far in advance this should be done. Hope you don't mind my butting in...Helene
Helene,
Your plants were absolutely lovely and what a great set-up!!
Phoebs,
It could have just been a problem with your server.Harmony's Pinkstone looks great!!
Pat,
For vitamins and minerals you might try some Superthrive.My plants (some) are not happy with the heat this year,so I am thinking of running my lights at night,even though I use a fan.It was 93 at 9 am and it's getting close to 100 now!!
Lynn
Thank you! it was fun work and fun to belong to the club.
Yes the heat does no good. Fan is important to ward off mealybugs and more. try to Cut the light back by one hour.
The main thing for all of to remember is not to panic when we see a few plants with tight centers.It is summer and we are often forcing our plants to live in extremely different conditions than their natural habitat.
If you can't see any mites under high magnification,there may not be any!! Also there are other things that indicate cyclamen mite,such as severely distorted stems and blossoms,twisted hair on the leaves,pink color at the the junction where the petiole and leaf meet,grey centers,etc. I know I personally have thrown out plants in the past that I know,in retrospect,did not have mites.....just cultural problems.
Lynn
Well, by the time I am done fussing I will certainly have ruled out: Bugs, heat, too much light, too much water, too little water, wrong water pH, wrong mix, too much fertilizer, too little fertilizer, wicks work, wicks don't work, etc. I figure by the time the summer is over I will have at least either killed everything or had some improvement, LOL! I have thrown out sooooo many...
Pat in Orlando
I am overly paranoid, constantly looking for bugs after I got mites included free of charge with one of my orders. Mine also have tight centers but nothing like the buggy ones I got. Several have complained on another forum about tight centers. I have had to shut down my lights because of the heat and have placed them in a South window and they are doing so much better for now but I did lose all of my streps. I won't even try to replace them until it starts cooling down. We don't have the duct work ran into the plant room yet and it just got too hot even with fans running.
Connie
