I got this. From the farmers market today. It was labeled a "colocasia black diamond". But a search through plant files didn't turn up that name. Other black EE's by name were much darker than this one. Any other ideas on ID?
Elephant Ear ID confirmatio please
And here is the under side of the leaves. The stems are a dark purple-ish green color.
I went thru plant delights pictures and I think it resembles hilo bay or maui magic. Anyone have those and think it might be one of those?
Locate the Aroid forum on the home page, it may be a ways down, that's where you'll find your answer. What ever species it turn out to be its very pretty. I love EE"s :>)
Christine
This could be Xanthosoma violaceum but your photos don't show enough detail to be able to verify that. The dark petioles (those aren't stems) are a common characteristic of that species.
The stem is the central axis of the plant while the support of a leaf is a petiole in aroids. This explains: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/What%20is%20a%20stem.%20%20What%20is%20a%20petiole.html
If you can take these photos we can likely figure it out:
1) A good clear photo of the upper blade surface, try to show all the veins
2) A good clear photo of the underside, also showing all the veins
3) A good clear photo of the base of the plant (the stem) so I can see how the blades unfold.
Like almost all aroids, this species is highly variable and the blades can take on several forms and will not always look alike.
Steve
Thanks much, Steve. I'll try to get better pictures tonight when I get home.
Here is a better picture of the top of it's front leaves. The flash makes it look super shiny, but they have a definite shine to the leaves even without a flash.
And here is the under side of the leaf.
And the whole plant.
I just read all of Dr. Croat's published notes on Xanthosoma violaceum as well as three articles in the International Aroid Society journal Aroideana (volume 2, volume 27 and volume 28) and your plant appears to be a good match. The vein structure (venation) is slightly lower in count than the plants in my collection but overall I would say it is a good match. Natural variation can easily account for the difference in the number of veins. I can also see the petiolar sheath at the base of the petiole which in these species serves the same purpose as a cataphyll while protecting the next new blade and it appears correct as well.
Do you see what appears to be a powder-like substance (pruinose) on the bottom of the leaf and do the petioles appear round?
It would be best to examine the plant closely while trying to match it to the scientific description but since I can't find evidence of another species with the raised purplish veins on the underside of the leaf along with the purplish petioles I would say this is likely Xanthosoma violaceum which has become naturalized in much of the Southern US even though it is largely from Central and South America.
Steve
Xanthosoma violaceum
This message was edited May 4, 2010 8:23 PM
I would believe it to be Colocasia fontanesii. Their is one new Colocasia called Diamond head which is a black form with dark shinny leaves. This maybe it if not in full sun. The full sun with bring out the darker coloration if it is Diamond Head.
The Xanthosoma violaceum usually has purple petioles and white powder like substance on them. It also has white sap and the sinus between the two back lobes cuts all the way down to the stem on most every Xanthosoma species. So seeing that the leaf in the above photo has fused back lobes which give it a more heart shaped look rather than arrowhead shape. Xanthosomas will also have a lateral vein that will run down the edge of the leaf.
Once mature check the flower Col. fontanesii will have a yellow spath and Diamond head a black to dark spath. Good luck
Thanks so much to both of you for the suggestions. I'll continue to watch it grow and compare it to your comments here. It's in part sun now on my deck, as I haven't decided where to plant it yet -- partly because of not knowing its proper name to look it up and know where it would be most happy (e.g., full sun, part sun, etc.).
One interesting note I forgot to include last night, is that even in the pot, it's already sending up babies (2 so far). So it seems to be quite "energetic".
Thanks again!
Jennifer
Brian, I just checked TROPICOS and Colocasia fontanesii is now considered a synonym of Colocasia esculenta. Click on "synonyms" on this link:
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/2102376
I mentioned the powder which is known as being pruinose earlier so be sure and check for it Jennifer. It won't be terribly thick but you can feel it. When trying to determine a species you need to check for all the details since many species are similar.
In no way do I wish to indicate Brian or anyone else is wrong. Several of my mentors and advisers (the top botanist in the field Dr. Tom Croat, Malaysian botanist Pete Boyce, English botanist Dr. Simon Mayo, Australia botanist Alistair Hay, Brazilian botanists Marcus Nadruz and Eduardo Gonçalves, as well as Julius Boos, Leland Miyano and others) have carefully taught me it is absolutely impossible to say any plant is positively a species without having the plant in hand along with the ability to see the venation, the stem and especially a spathe and spadix. To offer a "positive" ID without being able to examine the specimen is not aways a wise recommendation. Regardless of how much knowledge you gain by growing there are subtle factors a photo cannot show. These experts virtually always indicate a plant "appears" to be a species. I will never feel comfortable indicating anything more than a plant "appears" to be or is "likely to be".
Steve
This message was edited May 5, 2010 3:06 PM
This message was edited May 5, 2010 3:08 PM
I went back and read all the mentions of Colocasia fontanesii in the archives of Aroid l and there was a great deal of discussion and disagreement, in fact I found posts from you Brian. I elected to check all of the Royal Botanic Garden Kew's information and it appears they still feel Colocasia fontanesii is a synonym of Colocasia esculenta. Botanist Pete Boyce at least appears to believe there is another species involved but I doubt the one in Jennifer's photos would be a rare plant from Asia.
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/qsearch.do;jsessionid=8F05D40D80C2028FCF2D87CF493BC9B3
Jennifer, it appears you may have to grow it and see how it produces offsets. If it is a Xanthosoma the young plants should come up almost directly adjacent to the parent while if it is a Colocasia it should produce runners. The inflorescences you will eventually see should be very different as well.
I prefer to make observations and offer recommendations so a grower can determine what they are growing accurately rather that "absolute positive without a doubt" declarations. I have never felt such "declarations" are appropriate in a plant forum setting.
I have often said I do not consider myself an expert, just a careful observer that takes the time to read the scientific literature and seek good advice from scientifically qualified experts. Plants are variable and there are often features involved that make such "declarations" inappropriate.
This article written with the help of several people that understand variation far better than do I both explains and illustrates why. Compare the features, understand why variation plays a role and draw your own conclusions: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Natural%20variation%20within%20aroid%20and%20%20plant%20species.html
I would like to hear more of your thoughts Brian.
Steve
This message was edited May 5, 2010 9:46 AM
This message was edited May 5, 2010 9:50 AM
Steve this is a great article. I am not sure how much info I can add. As for specifics on this group. I have some personal theories on certain plants or clones of species. I for one find that Colocasia fontanesii is sterile and cannot produce seed it's pollen seems to be sterile as well. Which would tell me it is not a true species. I have not yet tested this with the slightly different clone out of Hymalayans called Colocasia Dark Water. Their is one species called Colocasia lihengiae that seems very similar to fontanesii and maybe fontanesii is a old hybrid off of this species. If so I would guess that the parientage would be Colocasia lihengiae X Colocasia esculenta Dark stems clone.
The same goes for Colocasia illustrius. My personal thoughts of this is that Colocasia illustrius is a hybrid between Colocasia antiquorum X Colocasia jenningsii or heterochroma. I have no proof of this but the combination of leaf and flowers looks to be very similar. And the fact that illustrius is complete sterile seems to tell me it is a hybrid.
These are of course my own person thoughts on this and I have no scientific proof that this is true. I would guess some genetic testing could show if this is possibly the origin of these two plants. It seems that the species have been crossed from time to time and that their is some blurred lines on some of these species. I have seen Colocasia Fallax growing beside of Affinis and plants of what looks to be hybrids of the two that grow right with them. They look similar to Col. heterochroma which shares similarities of both species.
Brian, you know how much I appreciate all your work as a member of the International Aroid Society Board of Governors and the observations you make in your business. It is my feeling you provide a great service to the folks on this forum, and certainly to the IAS. I also very much enjoy this kind of discussion since it helps to inform collectors of the complexities of the aroid family. Not everything in the family Araceae is "black and white" or simple. There are always variables to consider and the trained aroid botanists make us aware of that all the time..
Thanks for your input here. This is how people learn and my personal goal is to always try to supply information that allows growers to learn and explore based on fact, not supposition. I have learned so much over the years as a result of the open exchange of information on Aroid l and can only hope other forums will adopt that kind of format.
I came to the forum at the request of several regulars and only hope the info I try to share is useful. Thanks again!
Steve
PS: For those of you on FACEBOOK, the IAS has a page that Brian established and our friends list is quickly growing. If not already a "fan", please join us: http://www.facebook.com/pages/South-Miami-FL/International-Aroid-Society/291094100787
Xanthosoma violaceum leaves are never shiny like that.
I just got in some Alocasia plumbea 'Nigra' that look somewhat similar. However, I'm just guessing, I'm certainly no scientist (well, I am, but not in botany).
And here's the underside of the leaves. They're nice little plants.
Good observations which further makes it difficult to give any positive answer without actually observing the plant and seeing the inflorescence.
I am still curious if there is any powder-like substance on the bottom of the leaves. I would immediately withdraw any suggestion of this being X violaceum if the presence were to be confirmed.
Steve
I figured I would help by throwing out photos of each plant in question. Here is the first
Xanthosoma violaceum
Alocasia plumbea (nigra)
The leave tips on these will point upwards or horizontal.
My choice is
Colocasia fontanesii Their is a new form called Dark water extremely similar in looks and shape.
Looking at the tag I can say I have never heard of a Colocasia Black Diamond. The closets thing I have heard is the new hybrid called Colocasia Diamond Head from Dr Cho in Hawaii. Here is a photo for comparison.
Wow, great plants, Brian! Thanks for the photos- if only mine would/ could get that big!
Thanks much for the pictures, Brian. I've been out of town since Friday, so I'm hoping to get my mystery ear in the ground this week and get it growing. I have noticed it's putting out babies already (one is about 6" tall; the other about 2") ... just in the week since I bought it. Once it's planted & puts on some new growth, I'll update with pictures and we'll see what we're working with.
I did notice, however, a slight/light powdery substance at the base of the plant. Not sure if this is the same thing Exotic Rainforest mentioned. I'll try to get a picture of it tonight.
The powder-like substance should be on the underside of the leaves.