New Raised Beds...What Am I Forgetting?

I'm getting ready to make a new raised veggie bed. Here's what I'm keeping in mind...but what am I forgetting?...because there's always something...

an area in full sun
Hose can reach
6' wide so I can reach from both sides x not sure how long yet (it's DBF's first garden and he wants to plant every veggie he's ever heard of, lol)
going to need a trellis/structure for cukes, etc at one end/side

thinking of using a mix of 50% top soil, 25% compost, 12% mushroom compost, 12% aged manure and then just throwing in some sand for drainage (just enough to throw off my percentages, lol)

For building the structure of the bed (the wood) I'm going to use ACQ pressure treated lumber. YES, it is safe for use around food. I'm thinking of using 4 - 4x4's so, if my math is right, it should be about 14" deep. I'm not going to fill it to the very top, maybe 10-12" deep.

I will also be lining the bottom with hardware cloth, since there is already a resident groundhog here. Grrrr. Under the hardware cloth (chicken wire) I'll layer some newspaper to bring in the wormies...and that really does work for some reason.

So, what am I forgetting or overlooking? It's been a while since I made a new veggie bed.

Thanks for any help,
Heather

6 ft wide will be difficult. I'm pretty tall & 4 ft is as wide as I make them for myself. If the soil is anywhere near reasonable tilth reasonable tilth, I'd consider using more of it and less of the other stuff. That seems like a lot of manure.

I've read the whatever-they-call-it blurb about the toxicity of ACQ and it seems OK to me - it's what I use.

You don't need the paper to get worms. "Build it and they will come".

Enjoy

I'm with tarheel2az on the width. I have a 5' wide bed and I have to leave a walkway down the middle to get to the far-in stuff. 4 feet wide would be much more manageable.

6' is too wide? Really? From everything I've read on the 'net 3' reach from either side is figured to be good. Maybe I need to try setting something up at about the height the bed will be and try reaching over it then measuring my reach. Killing my back isn't something I'd be looking forward to.....I guess I need to figure in plant growth too. Baby size in spring and mature size come summer...and reaching over/around/through them. Now I'm really wondering about this...

My widest beds are 4' and that's hard to reach into sometimes depending on what veggie I happen to be reaching around. You definitely don't want them wider than 4'. Your back will thank you - lol...

Frank is right on the worms, too. If they like your soil they will come and set up shop. The newspaper and/or cardboard could be used to help inhibit weeds though. It won't hurt and will help your soil when it breaks down.

4' max. Even at that, it's a stretch. Remember that things will be ripening at different rates, and growing at different heights.

If you just want 6 feet because it works for your other needs... We had a too-wide bed that was already here. After leaning and twisting and falling for a couple of seasons, we finally put a few stepping stones down the middle.

heathrjoy, I do agree with everybody else about the width of the bed, mine is also 4 feet and sometimes I have to lean over a lot to pick things.

Also I was told by Linda, that to attract worms in your bed you can blend scraps of veggetable peels, cooffe grounds etc... dig a hole and bury all the concoction, worms love it and they will be attracted to it. I also used wet cardboard for the bottom of my beds but I really did not see any worms in my beds until I did the veggie concoction.

Thanks everyone. You ALL have convinced me!! The new bed will be 8' wide but will have a path down the center...so it will be split...two less than 4' wide strips. They will probably end up being more like 3'.

I think having a path down the center of the bed is a good idea for a lot of reasons. I've never had a raised bed with a path before and I'm sure I'm going to love that. It'll make caring for everything a lot easier.

On the bringing in the worms issue...I've done lasagna gardening before and that's where I got the idea of laying down the paper. If I can come up with enough "garbage" I'll do some lasagna layers on the bottom before adding in the soil and compost.

Does anyone else think that 12% manure is too much? Should I maybe back that down to 5%?

I'd like to get a compost pile going and use my own compost, but I'm thinking I'm going to have to use bagged for now. That's ok tho. I can always top dress with my own compost later in the season.

Thanks for all your help everyone, I really do appreciate it LOTS!

Another perspective:
I had success with much more manure, but placed it at the very bottom of the beds, over the cardboard/paper shreddings. However - those beds are 2' tall, so there was plenty of soil/etc on top of the manure. Warmed the soil up nicely, too. I've never had any problems with them - did the same on a smaller scale with the rest of my raised beds (some are only 1' high). These beds range in age from 23 to 12 years old. I use whatever I can get to help the process. I have pretty rich soil, but it needed help as it is clay-based. LOTS of worms in all of them. This worked well for me & I will be repeating this when I build my melon bed: manure at the bottom is a traditional way of making a hotbed.

I collect all the shredded paper from work - had to convince them I'm trying steal company secrets first, of course! - and I add that to my gardens to give the aeration the worms so like. Works great! (And in the winter I use the shredded paper for the fireplace so I don't need any kind of firestarter.)

A long board can be placed on the side of the bed to help you when you need to reach into the center of the bed. The board will disperse your weight to reduce compaction. If you have straw all over the bed this will provide a cushion in case you do accidentally step or lean on the soil.

My garden is wrapped around one side of the house. There are a few beds 3 1/2 to 4 ft. wide and I can only reach them from one side. It can be a 'stretch' to reach the other side, but not impossible. Putting a board on the side of the bed and a straw layer has really helped. Don't be too worried about the occasional slip up. Walking on the bed can cause compaction. However, it is not nearly as much as a rototiller or other machinary. Just don't make a habit of it.

I guess I will throw my two cents worth in too. I have raised beds that I have put in about 2 years ago. They are a series of 4 x8 4 x6 (the bulk of them) and 4 x 4. (all depended on how we wanted them to lay out) They are about two feet high because it is much easier on my back. I have horses and an unending supply of topsoil. I have filled all of these beds with what I call paddock scrapings (old manure that has been scraped up to clean the paddock out) and aged manure. That is all I have used and have lovely soil. Now, this is not fresh. It is very well aged, but I added nothing else. The only problem I have had is that the organic matter keeps breaking down and I have to add more of this soil each spring or fall as it breaks down. I find even bending over the 4 foot beds can get to ones back and I often time use a stool to sit on as I weed. I have also extended my growing season with hoops and plastic very successfully. But when you do this, you usually only go in on one side and 4 feet is about all I can reach across. Have attached a photo of the winter bed. You may want to rethink the width to give you the option of extending your growing season. Just a thought...

Those are nice! Mine aren't fancy. I don't have any wood framing. The sides stand up on their own.

Has anyone used compost crops/green manure. I want to try to grow them during the cool season to help improve the soil.

I have a good supply of poultry manure. It seems to really help the soil quite a bit. Manure is suppose to be a better soil conditioner than plain compost. I also add lots of kitchen scraps (cooked and raw) scrap paper, cereal boxes, newspapers, coffee grounds and old pet food to my compost bins. I am starting to learn that there is more shoulds than should nots to add to the pile. If only I could get a hold of rotted hay, cow pies, brewery waste, restaurant refuse, etc...

I would rethink those cereal boxes in the compost pile unless you know that the dyes they use are not toxic. Even though most newspapers are now soy based inks, I'm not so sure about cereal boxes.

have you ever considered using those concrete building blocks instead of wood. i container garden but i have seen pictures of people who use the blocks and they look pretty good plus its a lot easier to move them if for some reason you have to.

just a thought

My beds are 4' wide and I'm going to change them to 3' wide. It's easier for me to reach from both sides.

I am soooooooooooo glad to have run across this thread!

My one active raised bed was supposed to be 4 x 10 but, instead of installing the boards across the front to close it up, I decided to border it with bricks. This reduced my actual growing space to 3 x 10. I've been meaning to move those bricks, face off the front with that last board and fill it in to recapture that lost foot of growing space.

After reading this, I'll move the bricks and close off at 3 ft. I discovered how difficult it is to reach into the center just this weekend, as I was filling in some empty squares! And I was glad to have those bricks to lean on, too!

Thanks for this VERY helpful feedback!

This is what is looked like empty with the bricks.

I have one bed that I bordered with cinderblocks so I could grow flowers in the spaces. It looked really good, but I found that the blocks sucked up water and I had to water that bed more that the ones with the treated wood. (There's always got to be something,ya know?!)

PS - I do have one flower bed that I bordered with Belgian Block, and it is not nearly as porous.

all my raised beds are 4' wide;
However, they are made with 4x6x8 lumber, so I can sit on the edge - easy reach in, no bending required.

Hello,
Great thread ,great info !
dlbailey in my case the space left for the beds is fairly small a little alley behine the house.
2 beds 8 x 4wide and 1 bed 4x4wide it work well for me but I can only reach them from one side .
Here is a pic from early January 2010 thought.
Emily

good thread, I like the pics!



But I think a raised bed that you walk down the middle is defeating the purpose. What is gained by making it that wide? What is lost?

What is lost is the ease of maintaining a raised bed. By making it wide, you may as well not make it at all and just plant in the ground.

You gain a little more area, but then you take it away by walking down the middle. I made mine 4 ft wide and sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have made them 3 ft wide. I have two 4x8 beds and one 4x12 bed. I plan on adding more 4x12 beds as time goes on. Well, at least one more anyway.

In my case, the only layout that worked required one bed to be up against a wall, so that's where it went. But, at 5 feet wide, the back half would be unusable if I didn't have access through the middle. It works out OK since I can keep the path fairly narrow--I maybe lose a foot of width from the path, but gain access to the back two feet.

Win some, lose some... :)

Hmmm...do what you can with what you've got.
Some folks have to maximize their available space which may only be accessible from 1 side.
Solution: lay a board (wide enough to kneel on) into the bed - if it reached the back wall so much the better. The board disperses your weight & allows better access as you can position yourself further into reachable area. Soil compaction is greatly lessened.

The point of raised beds is usually to promote better drainage & for the soil to warm earlier. Planting in-ground does not always produce great results for many people; raised beds offer a viable alternative.

Feb 2010

APRIL 09 /2010
After some harvest and trimming.

Best recommendation for depth? Mainly growing tomatoes.

12" - this depth is required not because the vegetables' roots will grow that deep but to allow water from rainfall or irrigation to drain properly through the soil.

Around here, people mostly choose raised beds because they're planning on bringing in dirt, and building up the box to put it in is easier than digging a hole and hauling off the original dirt (or stone).

Our community garden has raised beds, sunken beds, and double-dug mounds. With the past year of an unusually hot dry summer and and unusually cold wet winter, it was interesting to see the difference. The raised beds were distinctly more productive in the winter, presumably because they were warmer, but the traditional prairie sunken beds had a clear advantage in the drought of not losing so much water.

realbirdlady, that's some interesting info. I'd like to see/hear some more info like that. I guess we always *assume* that raised beds are superior because we can control the soil...but maybe not, huh? We can still control the soil "in ground" it's just not as easy. Maybe it's worth doing more work? I guess a raised bed is really just like a super-huge container, but we don't think of it like that. Interesting when you start looking at it like that. Kinda makes me want to plant in-ground.

Climate/rainfall/soil type predetermines much.
We don't have a water deficit here in the PNW, so in ground planting can be troublesome for a number of crops (assuming drainagae issues). However, for those things we wish to grow that require "wet" soil, the sunken beds work exceptionally well.
It's useful to have a variety of perspectives expressed in order to better understand what others endure in their gardens, as well as for practical solutions in an "off" year.

Does anyone have a photo or a link to a sunken bed? I grow in sunken beds holding 2-4 inches of water using containers. My regular soil is so sandy that it can rain all day and night and within 30 minutes there are no puddles to be found. My containers have earthworms and added organic matter. The nutrients that leach out are somewhat retained unless it rains hard and long. Everything thrives and I don't have to water every day.

twiggybuds, that's very interesting to me. I've never done any research on sunken beds in the manner you're using them. I'm really interested in this.

Actually, DBF dug out an 8x8 bed for veggies yesterday. I was thinking of making another bed that was raised...but now I don't know if I want to. I may opt for in ground, maybe lasagna style layered a bit. I'm really not sure now. I have some research to do before I decide...

Lasagna style in ground was why I was asking depth earlier. Thank you ChristmasCactus! I will be planting larger tomatoes and a few other things in them.
I know Twiggybuds system works well in the south. I have five "water beds" going this year. I don't know if anyone in cooler climates has tried it, have they?

I've never seen beds like twiggybuds before, but I think they are awesome. I don't know how they'd work in my zone. They'd probably work well once it warmed up here...probably around July-August when it hits 100*.

I'm wondering about starting a lasagna styled layered bed now and planting it in about 4-6 weeks...that's when our last frost date usually is. I think I may be leaning more towards an in ground bed. I may not have enough material to layer 12", but I'm figuring that in 4-6 weeks it'll be broken down through the bottom (first) layer and mixed well enough to plant or at least turn by hand enough to mix in pretty easily vs what it would be now. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I have sticky red clay soil, so raised beds are a must, otherwise the roots would rot in wet weather. The beds are six inches high, which the veggies seem to like. During periods when there is no rain, their deepest roots are down in the wet clay. During wet periods, their shallow roots are in the upper "well-drained" area.

That's my assumption anyways :)

Honeybee...if it's working...don't "fix" it!!!!

here's the thing...I was planning raised beds here for the veggies. DBF didn't say anything until the other day, but that's not really what he wants. I know if I push the issue I'll get what I want...but I don't want to do that. The soil here *looks* pretty good. I need to test it...but pH looks to be around 5. We have a clay base. The top soil here is a bit too heavy, but nothing that some peat (and hopefully some compost) won't fix. I've certainly gardened in worse.

There are things growing here...wild flowers and plants, thanks to the birds, etc. I find that encouraging. I think my biggest issue will be drainage...and the veggie garden is going in where that shouldn't be a problem...but I'll do the hole/fill it with water/how long to drain test and see what happens.

If the in ground gardens fail miserably this season I can always salvage things by transplanting to containers and then next year build the raised beds.

The real thing is that DBF actually wants to turn most of the grass area of the property into some type of food-bearing crops eventually. If we start with raised beds now in one area that will eventually mess up his long-term plans.

So, that's the story for now...this week anyway...we'll see where it leads next week!!! LOL!

I seem to have a diverse interest in gardening. I tried the Twiggybuds waterbeds last year and was happy enough to keep them going. This area has spells of drought and the waterbeds seem to use water most efficiently.

In ground crops seem to vascilate between excess moisture or deprived from drought. I would like to find a happy medium so am trying an inground lasagna bed, layering with cardboard, paper, compost, manure and soil. This spot will only be 5 or 6 square feet. I am hoping this will provide more efficient water retention for the crops planted in ground. I intend to bury gallon jugs to leach water to the roots of the plants in this area also to add fertilizer when necessary.

For years I have had a bed that runs down the side of the house. It is four feet deep and I had planted ornamentals at first to prevent soil erosion till I decided what to do with it. I have added compost and mulch over the years and it is becoming a raised bed. This year, I have made the final move to uprooting what was growing there and planting a kitchen garden of lettuce, cukes, radishes mixed with a variety of perennial and annual herbs. In order not to compact the soil, I have placed flat stones to step onto to reach the back of the bed. The stones provide a bit of hard mulch for moisture retention as well as an attractive feature. That is just another thought for those needing access with deeper beds.

Amazing all the different types of beds ~ raised and otherwise that have been presented here. I am always interested in the new and different ideas.