Keeping Fruit Trees Small

Just wandering if I can keep my full sized fruit trees(apples, pears, peaches, plums) small by pruning. They were just planted in the ground and are all about 5 feet tall.

I think you will have a busy time trying to control the trees natural growth habits to grow to a standard size. Guiding and shaping the way they normally want to grow is one thing but it's hard to hold them back if they are full standard sized trees. What about planting some of the same trees but plant dwarf size which will produce nice fruits too without extra amounts of pruning?
Cuckoo

fancyflea, I have an entirely different viewpoint on maintaining tree size. All of mine are standard trees, no semi-dwarf or dwarf trees. I maintain them at the height of my tiptoe reach so I don't need a ladder.

This does require both summer and dormant pruning. I prune after the fruit is harvested to maintain the height. And then after they go dormant to maintain the shape and cleanliness of the trees.

Semi-dwarf and dwarf trees are the same as standard trees except they are grafted onto root stock that impeds their growth. This less vigourous root stock effects not only tree size but it's entire performance. I would only use it for a tree grown in a pot or very restricted planter.

Standard trees do not just grow to enormous size unless you let them. Many of the large commercial orchards here in California look like they have been mowed down to a good height by a gigantic lawn mower. A tractor mounted trimmer is driven through the whole orchard to acheive this uniform height. And these orchards produce 85-90% of all the fruit consumed in the USA. Don

ditto what Dlmcgrw said. but I'd say you don't have to start your pruning routing until next winter--your trees are very young.

google Urban Harvest Houston. They have a lot of info on keeping trees short, they way you want. That is the way I'm doing all my fruit trees.

Thank you all for your input. I planted them only 10 feet apart so pruning will be the way I go not to mention it will be a lot easier to pick the fruit. Dlmcgrw, Good to know when to prune. Since I planted them only a few weeks ago I guess I'll wait until next year to start pruning??

Please don't prune your new trees until the roots are established. See my post:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1078633/

Most experts contend that it is necessary to prune fruit trees (not ornamentals) extensively in the first few years. The first few years are the most critical for determining the tree's ultimate shape and productivity. When you buy bareroot fruit trees, they will get some pruning to fit in the shipping box, but they will usually come with instructions for severe pruning at planting time. It takes discipline to remove as much tree as necessary, but should pay off in terms of the tree's health, productivity, and appearance.

An excellent book on pruning is the American Horiculture Society's Pruning and Training: http://www.amazon.com/American-Horticultural-Society-Training-Practical/dp/1564583317/

The Dave Wilson web site also has some good information: http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/BOC_explained.html

Edited to fix links.

This message was edited Apr 11, 2010 8:30 PM

Fancyflea, Maryneedsleep has given you good advice. In order for your trees to be kept at a reasonable height when they are full grown you want to start with branches low on the trunk. If they do not come that way you have to force them by pruning as soon as you plant them.

The Dave Wilson site she suggested is a good one as it has information on shaping your tree for the future. I am sure the other site is also a good one. Much of the information that is readily available was developed for commercial growers, not backyard gardeners and it's emphasis is on producing large volumes of fruit.

Your ten feet between trees can be made to work but you will soon start to feel pretty crowded. When you control for height, your trees like to spread out a little. The usual solution for crowded trees is to oet them go up. Don

Sorry folks - my info on NOT pruning trees until the roots are established is from the latest research and hasn't been written up in book form yet. Until the roots are established you won't get any significant top growth anyway - there is nothing there that won't keep until the roots are established. You need as many buds - especially the ones at the branch tips - as you can get for now.

I have been pruning fruit trees off and on for 30 years. When I first moved here I planted fruit trees and pruned & trained them "by the book". But they were in a tough windy dry site, and I lost most of them the first year. After I took the CSU-taught Master Gardener class, I replanted new trees and left them unpruned, and I haven't lost one yet. And they haven't grown enough for it to cause training problems.

I am now thinking about moving some of the trees so they all get more space. My problem was planting them too close in the first place. That's what happens when you find someone real cheap to do the work but who knows nothing about plants. I would like to keep them small but would also like the option of letting them get a bit bigger if I happen to get lazy one year. Hopefully the trees will be ok if I move them again in the next week or so. I planted them about 10 days ago.

Yes, they probably haven't started rooting and moving them shouldn't hurt the ROOTS - However, if the buds have swollen, they will be more fragile. When you dig your new holes, this is an oportunity to make them wider - the tree will root faster into soil that has been loosened. The graft should be above the ground, and the lower root-stock side of the graft should face north if possible.

Thank you pollen. I shall be breathing down the necks of the workers(but in a kind manner) so that the work is done right.

Pollengarden, If I ever have a problem with a bare root tree not rooting rapidly and vigorously after it has been pruned down to the size I want it, I will know what to do and follow your "new method" advice. So far all of mine have done just fine.

Your advice about widening the planting holes only applies to some soils. I have to do it because I plant in caliche. I have to use a jackhammer to prepare satisfactory root growing conditions for my fruit trees. But many soils are best left native and undisturbed. I also avoid round holes because the perimeters of my planting holes are almost as hard a concrete and I don't want to simulate pot bound roots. Albeit an eight foot round pot. I also use somewhat raised mounds over the holes. But that is because of the native soil I have to work with.

This is, however, a whole new subject with myrid ramifications. I believe that preparing your planting site with due consideration to sun exposure, drainage, root development, growing space, etc. is arguably the most important factor in growing fruit trees successfully. Don

I grow a small number(about 35) of home orchard trees. All of mine with the exception of a couple( ones sent that I didn't order) are standard full size trees. I work hard in the very early spring to maintain there size(pruning) for easier picking and to provide my trees with better growing conditions. Pruning and some thinning helps let more light in for good growth, fruit size, and less disease problems. When I thought small trees might work for fancyflea I was also thinking they would require less pruning and work yet allow a harvest of some decent amounts of fruit. I have several fruit trees and varieties (apple, pear, nectarine, peach, cherry, apricot, etc.) and each have unique growing characteristics based on the species and the particular root stock grafted to that tree. Often I will use a open vase method(somewhat like opening your fingers and spreading them out like a vase), a central branch method, or with some trees allow them to pretty much grow the natural way. Each of my different types of trees require their own unique pruning attention from me. I learn something knew from my trees all of the time and I'm constantly reading and looking for new and better ideas to grow better fruits. I really love to pick my fruit and then share it with people who say back to me, Hey did you grow this? and I just try to hold it back then I will simply say, Yes I did!! It makes all my time, work, and energy worth it!

Cuckoo

fancyflea - I just noticed that you are in zone 9a. Can you grow things like apples that require winter chilling?

I got ones that are for low chilling hours. Golden Dorset and Anna apples. Same with the peaches and pears. Not sure if they will be they will make it but was willing to try.

By the way, what happens if fruit do not get enough chill hours? Do they not fruit? die?

they just won't produce fruit. But with anna and G. dorsett, you should be fine and get some nice little apples next year or the following year.

a lot of the low chill apples that are being sold as suitable for our area come from Turkey, Israel (that general area) and some from Australia.

For many generations they have been growing apple trees to a large size to maximize the production. Now they are finding out that only the top three feet of the tree is really getting any sun. They were planted so close, there is very little room between trees. Now they are cutting down large groves and planting much closer together and kept trimmed so they spread out but not that high, so that more leaves are getting sun. They now produce more apples per acre and the apples have more flavor.

Thanks vossner. Kenboy, that is very interesting.

fancyflea - Thanks so much for starting this thread! This is exactly the information I was looking for.

Thanks everyone! Lots of valuable info here!

Getting enough sun into the tree is a problem at lower elevations that I don't have to deal with here in Colorado. I usually try to open up the center of a tree anyway - but it isn't that important here.

Here in the midwest it(pruning)helps circulate air and thus drying. Great soils, plentiful rainfall, pruning, etc.are all great things but that moisture can create an environment for diseases.Many branches are simply covered in shade and moisture lingers.
Cuckoo

We moved to a new house last Sept. and there are three mature apple trees (I believe "Delicious") on the property. Unfortunately, the previous owner neglected them for a number of years, and a silver maple was planted nearby a few years ago, so two of them are really in shade.

We have to remove one for sure (almost completely dead). Possibly, we can try to save another one (although I have my doubts since it would have to be severly pruned both for air circ., light, and to remove lots of dead wood (and with that silver maple..... But it does have a few branches that are leafing out this spring. Guess we can only try.

The third tree needs pruning badly, but it's about 85-90% good wood - leafing out and blossoms are getting ready to open.

It's amazing what 8-10 years of neglect can do to a tree. The neighbor (who's lived here all his life) says when the trees were planted, the then owner took excellent care of them and they were marvelous producers. Then that owner moved and the other guy moved in and didn't care for them at all. Sad.

tobydog60 I agree with you about neglect of a fruit tree. Even minimal care can help them thrive and produce. The time spent on care doesn't compare to the benefits of a healthy tree full of delicious fruit to enjoy. Maybe you can save those trees in decline or even go so far as to replant new ones! It's worth a try!
Cuckoo

Change of plans! We're going to at least attempt to save the "almost completely dead" tree. Have nothing to lose by trying, I guess.

And Cuckoo - We have 4 dwarf apple trees coming this fall to be planted out. Ordered 'Ashmead's Kernel', 'Calville Blanc', 'Liberty', and 'White Winter Pearmain'. And these will thrive as we will absolutely take proper care of them!!

Cathie

I have a 'Liberty' standard size and a nursery a few years ago screwed up and sent me a dwarf 'Liberty' so I have 2 nice trees. Beautiful apple trees, fast growing, and nice apples. They are tart to me so would be good in recipes with sugar!! Don't know much about your other 2 you will plant this fall. Different regions of the country seem to have their own favorites but I like to try the old standbys and of course break out of the mold and try to grow something new and different. Tobydog60 you will like your 'Liberty' I'm sure.
Cuckoo

Cuckoo, If you trully like unusual and heirloom varieties, you might want to google Kuffle Creek Farms. They specialise in finding and reestablishing apples that have been, for all intents, lost to us. You won't find anything "new and different" but you will find "old and different". Don

I'm glad you told me about Liberty , cuckoo. I was kind of hoping it would be a tart apple. Can't always go by catalog descriptions! I bought it because it's supposed to be pretty disease resistant.

The other apples are "antique" varieties. I like to plant "antique" tomatoes and veggies, so thought I'd go with the same in apples.

Ashmead's Kernel is from the 1700's, White Pearmain = 1867( I actually ordered this variety because another name for it is "Griffin's Pearmain" - and my baby grandson is named "Griffin"), and Calville Blanc d'Hiver is from the 16th century (French). Really "antique", I guess. Hope they all taste good and grow well for me!

In addition to Kuffle Creek Farms that Don posted, there's Black Horse Creek Farm (the one I ordered from) and Trees of Antiquity.

Thanks Don! My trees are loaded with blooms this year with our extended cold winter we've experienced. I think it will be a good year for our fruit trees if we have decent weather this summer and fall. It's amazing some of those heirloom trees have survived. Obviously that's why their here because they are proven survivers. I do like the new varieties too for their growth and disease resistance characteristics.
I tried a "Freedom" twice( over two years) but couldn't get one to survive?? Kind of weird to me.

This is a peach orchard not far from me. The trees are about 8 feet tall and look very old as the trunks are quite thick.

what perfectly pruned trees. I hope mine look like that someday. See how they don't have a leader branch but rather pruned like a salad bowl, so sun gets to the center of canopy?

private or commercial grove?

It is a small commercial grower. The trees are kept short but are very wide. I will definately have to move some of my trees.

fancyflea, That photo demonstrates my initial point...that a standard tree properly shaped and pruned is far superior to a tree stunted/dwarft by being grafted to root stock with little vigor. Look how much fruit they are getting and all pickable while your feet are on the ground and all tree care easily done without poles and ladders. Yeah, moving some of your trees and aiming for an orchard like the one shown is a good way to go. Don