Banana success in zone 8a

I was responding to this thread: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1049707/ and thought this might be a neat way to track which Bananas surive and/or thrive in our Carolina zones.

As of mid/late March.... (see below for update)

Growing quickly
Basjoo

Showing good growth
Abyssinian

Showing some signs of life
Dwarf Cavendish
Veluntina

So far, no signs of growth
Saba
Hawaiian 'Apple' / Mainland Brazilian (transplanted from Kauai - parent seen in photo below)
Bordelon
Orinoco
Dwarf Orinoco
'Praying Hands'

No signs of growth and not looking good
'Ice Cream' (Blue Java)
Dwarf Namwah
Pisang Ceylon

Expected to be dead
Siam Ruby

=====================================

Ultimately, I tried, and LOST all of the following over the last two winters.

Zebrina Rojo (Blood Bananas)
Gran Nain
Itinerans [verdict still out on this one as of early 2011]
'Praying Hands'
Dwarf Namwah
Pisang Ceylon
Siam Ruby
Dwarf Cavendish
Hawaiian 'Apple' / Mainland 'Brazilian'
Bordelon
'Praying Hands'
Orinoco
Dwarf Orinoco

The ultimate winter (2009-2010 & 2010-2011) survivors are:
Basjoo
Abyssinian
Veluntina
'Ice Cream' (Blue Java)
Saba

This message was edited Apr 9, 2011 1:38 PM

This message was edited Apr 9, 2011 1:39 PM

My Viente Cohol feels firm around the base but there are no signs of life yet. Then again, my Veluntina and Dwarf Cav are not showing their stuff yet either and I know they will come back.

Both of mine M basjoo and velutina overwintered in the greenhouse since they were quite small and I didn't know where I was going to plant them. So....they're both doing great! ;)
Barb

My Dwarf Cavendish is just starting to come back. To speed things up I did chop off the mushy stuff on top a week or so ago. I also peeled back the outside a bit too. I learned last year to do that to Basjoo to get them growing fast. If not it takes a while for the new grow to push up and out of the top.

Actually at the moment I don't see anything that got killed off by the cold this winter.

My basjoos are sending up new growth (and a couple of them were in pots, outside, unprotected!). My siam ruby's however are not (at least, not yet). :-(

It will stink if the Siam's don't come back. I really enjoyed those last summer. I'm planning to set an appt at Plant Delights for when my mom comes down in a couple weeks so she can see the grounds, and might order a couple more and pick-up then if mine don't show signs of life by then.

My ensete maurielle and banana cannas are just babies I bought from the nursery this Feb, and have been in the GH, so they don't count as having "survived this winter" quiet yet.

I figured that trick out with the Basjoo too Core, it really does seem to speed them up. I swear one of them has already growth 2 feet since I did that - crazy. I also noticed many of them get bent up inside the older leaves where there is mushy dead leaf surrounding the new growth - so pulling the old step back helps prevent that too.

Do either of you have more detail (or pictures) about what you're doing? I wonder if it would make a difference with a couple of my other basjoos that are not yet poking out. I don't know if they just didn't make it, or if this issue might help them out. This is my first over-winter with them, so I'm winging it with them.

I'll see if I have any left and snap a photo.

But basically you go to the top of the p-stem that's dead and "peal" back the layers until you get to the new growth (it'll be lime green). Often the new leaf may have buckled under the older leaf that has likely rotted since it never made it out last winter. You will loose some height of the p-stem doing this, but usually the plant bounces right back and is back to it's old height quickly. Even if you don't release the new leaf, it'll often find a way to eventually bust out... through the side of the old p-stem or it'll push the old growth out (which can be snipped off since it's dead anyway).

Thanks ... I'll have to take a look at some of my other ones that haven't sprouted yet to see if this might help.

I looked last night at my 'nanas that haven't show signs of life to see if peeling back the layers would reveal anything, and nada. I think they're toast. The soil was plenty warm, and I've been watering them but alas, I don't think those fellas made it. *RIP*

I have 4 bananas that are rebounding, and due to a loss of tag on one, I don't know if its a basjoo or perhaps possibly one of my siam's. Time will tell, I guess.

My mom has an abundance of basjoos in her yard in Delaware, as she's been growing them for years and they've consistently multiplied. Most of mine came from her, in fact. As she's coming down for a visit in two weeks, I might see if she can bring a couple of her babies with her, if they're showing their faces this early. She's taking home a few of the TG elephant ears with her, as well as some of my hibiscus seedlings that I'd started outside, so she'll need to make room for those anyway! :-P

Basjoos can take a lot of cold so I wouldn't be surprised if they start growing again from the ground level, just chop the mush off and see what happens. If they don't back you'll pretty much know the limit to their cold hardiness, useful to a new grower.

These were in pots vs. in the ground. When I peeled back the prior growth, it wasn't even mushy. The roots felt warm and swollen, if that makes any sense; however (and forgive my lack of terminology), the center/main part of the root system (base of stalk) was warm, dry and crumbly.

Don't worry, the terminology took me a while to get used to myself. If the base of the stalk, the corm, was firm, then the banana is probably fine. You may already know, but for those who don't - everything above the surface is actually just banana leaf - the corm is what's important. The stem is actually called a pseudo-stem (p-stem or false-stem) because it's not really a trunk, but a cluster of leaves.

I should also point out that once a Basjoo blooms (and thus dies) it's best to leave the 'mother' corm in place, because the next years pups will grow vigorously from it. Some people advise to remove the water suckers (the babies with big broad leaves) and keep just the sword suckers (the pups that come up that grow really fast with tiny leaves like a dart out of the ground), but I usually just let them all sort themselves out in my mats. You may think you'll never see a bloom, but Basjoo's will bloom at very low heights. I had Basjoo blooms last year as low as 3', 4', and 7' and as tall as 11'.

I think I'm going to experiment with a bunch of Musa Itinerans this year as well. I've heard that they are great ornamental bananas for our climate here, and can get very large. While not as hardy as Basjoo, they are certainly more hardy than most other varieties we've talked about. Have any of you had luck with these giants?

Hate to steer off topic, but those of you carolina gardeners growing basjoos ... do you have them in full sun all day (e.g., zero shade) or do you have them in a place where they receive true full sun? I want to line my back yard with them, but that area gets absolute full sun. I can water w/o a problem, but most things that even say "full sun" burn up when I put them there. Another alternative would be banana cannas, which I bought two of, but could pick up a few more, if they're more tolerant of our summer sun & heat.

I thought (to add some variation/interest) about adding giant dahlia trees to give the bananas some shade, but again, not sure how they'd really do in our full sun. We don't get the ocean breezes like the coastal areas do to cool things down. It just gets plum hot & humid in the summer.

Thoughts?

Basjoo can grow in all sorts of light conditions. I had some out in the front yard with ZERO shade and they thrived with enough water. I also have many in the back under tree canopy and they also seem happy (though a little slower growing since they have to compete with the trees for water). If you take any banana outside that's been inside, you may see burnt leaves at first, but the new leaves will be fine. And honestly, my largest basjoo of all is in the backyard and only gets the very very hot afternoon sun - and it has pupped and grown larger than any other banana I have. It also gets drainage from the gutter system - so the extra water is no doubt helping. It got to over 11' last year though. Just watch out for Japanese Beatles - they love basjoo leaves.

This message was edited Apr 2, 2010 11:11 AM

I second all that, I have basjoos planted in various lighting and the tallest is the one growing in almost full sun. My gutters feed some cannas so if you have gutters don't waste the water plant something that like a good dose of water now and again. AC units discard a fair amount of water too.

The Bamboo Farm in Savannah has their bananas in full sun and they are grown in full sun in FL. I think if you want flowers and/or fruit they will need a good bit of light.

Thanks so much for the advice on exposure. That helps a lot.

Just an FYI to anyone looking to buy bananas from Lowe's. Given the stock was the same in Summerville as here in Lexington and Irmo, I'm guessing this year they are only stocking Siam Ruby and Zebrina Rojo (Blood Bananas). They label them as "Hardy Bananas" but neither is likely to survive our winters here in South Carolina (maybe on the coast if you're lucky). I am not sure who's labeling the bananas at Lowe's, but they are probably going to have some unhappy customers next spring.

It's strange because normally they have Basjoo (or have the last two years) and Dwarf Cavendish. Speaking of which, I thought I was seeing growth on my DC's, but I think they might have died back to the ground and I was seeing things. I cut the stem back on one and it wasn't alive inside... so not holding my breath on those.

For what it's worth, I also have a very hard time keeping Siam Ruby's alive inside - they are especially picky bananas and I'm probably not going to mess with them anymore.

Speaking of the Siam Ruby, one of my bananas that IS coming back and was not labeled, might (a big might) be the Siam. I seem to remember last year, when my Siam pupped, the pup was a light/bright green at first, then "came into" it's purple color as it matured/grew. And that is what I'm seeing with one of my banana babies. The leaves are longer, brighter and pointier than my others coming back that I know are basjoos. If this is a Siam, and it is coming back, it will be nothing short of a miracle, because this pot was accidentally left on the deck, unprotected, all winter.

And here is the stem.

Thoughts?

That would be pretty cool if it was, let us know once it gets a little bigger. I have a friend in Louisiana who swears he can get his Siam's to survive his 7b winters, but normally with a really good mulch.

Maybe I shouldn't be so fast to dismiss them - but I think for most folks they will be tough to keep alive. I'm curious to see if this little guy that survived is a Siam :)

I checked Lowes today and they had no bananas. Hmmmm wonder why you get them before us??? Don't think I missed them but I guess they could have sold out but I didn't see any signs either.

I was at my local nursery (Atlantic Avenue) two weekends ago, and they had about 2 dozen basjoos. Went back the next weekend, and they said someone came in and bought them all. They said they would order some more, and would be in probably by Wednesday of this week. I have 3 on reserve for me. But dang, at $25 a pop, someone laid out some serious cash for 2 dozen of 'em!

Keoni -- I just went out to check on my unknown banana, and it's sending up a 3rd leaf but I couldn't detect any color change quite yet. It's still a really bright/light green (lime) vs. the darker, richer green of my other basjoos. Time will tell ...

Here's an updated picture of the one banana I'm suspecting *may* be a Siam. Any thoughts? My returning basjoos don't display the red vein down the center like this one is, and it almost looks like the red coloration is spreading out to the rest of the leaves from the center.

For comparison, here's my returning basjoo.

You got me still... it's so hard to ID these guys when they are little. Heck, some of them are hard to ID when they are big. I think I lost A LOT of bananas this year - or at least they died back to the ground. But after that winter, I guess I should have suspected that. I am probably going to convert to 100% Basjoo - they are a nice ornamental for the yard. I may mix in some other hardy varieties too like Itinerans.

Time will tell, I guess. Will keep ya posted. I'd like for it to return, but I doubt I'll replace it if it doesn't. They're very pretty, but I could just as easily add some purple-leafed cannas for the color variation, and those I know will come back even with minimal protection/mulch.

You really can't press your luck to much with the zone factor. Soil temp is a deciding factor i think since many plants can die back on top but the more tropical plants need 50 or so ground temps. At least that's my take on on the marginal tropical plants.

It'll be interesting to see if any of them pup or not - the ones that died back. If my monstera comes back again, I'll be really surprised. I think it just got too cold and we had too many hard freezes (including the ground freezing, plus the snows) to escape with any luck this year for most of the marginal stuff. But time will tell, I was surprised what came back last year - so I shouldn't complain too much just yet. I do think the White BOPs and Traveller's Palms bit the dust, but it's too soon to tell with them yet.

Mekos just posted a recent, successful in-ground overwintering of a tropical bird in the tropical plants forum. But they'd cut it back and had the wire basket of mulch and leaves around it for protection. But it did survive, and they are in SC as well (7B I believe). It's given me hope that I might do the same with mine this summer. We'll see.

I've got new pups to spare, so I may try that as well next winter. I should have mulched better for a first try.

I have White BOPs and they over winter fine in my zone problem is they haven't bloomed since the cold always gets them and they die back to the ground before they get a chance to flower.

3 of my four red ab bananas have some yellow leaves. Could this be due to the transition from pot to ground (or GH to outside), too much water (I water them daily unless it rains), or what? Should I cut these leaves off to promote growth for the rest of the plant and roots?

They really don't need that much water think that's why those leaves are turning color on you.

Thank you. Do you think I should cut them off (the yellow leaves)?

Banana update... sort of. Not much has changed in the last two weeks. Most notable change is what didn't make it and what still shows no signs of life despite very warm temperatures and lots of rain. This past winter may have been severe enough to kill some of these that might normally survive our winters. Second to being gone entirely, many appear to have died back to the ground - including some Basjoo (again which highlights the bad winter). I am experimenting with a few new types this year and will see what happens. If we have a mild winter in 2010-2011, some that died this year might survive next.

New bananas going in the ground this year are:

Zebrina Rojo (Blood Bananas) - not expecting these to return unless we have a mild winter.
Gran Nain - will be interesting to see if these come back. Hopefully more hardy than a DC.
Itinerans - I know these will come back


Anyway, onto the report. As of mid-April....

Growing quickly with lots of leaves
Basjoo

Showing good, but slow, growth
Abyssinian
Veluntina

Showing some signs of life
Orinoco
Dwarf Orinoco

So far, no signs of growth
Saba
Bordelon
'Praying Hands'

No signs of growth and not looking good
Hawaiian 'Apple' / Mainland 'Brazilian'
Dwarf Cavendish
'Ice Cream' (Blue Java)
Dwarf Namwah
Pisang Ceylon

Expected to be dead
Siam Ruby

Confirmed dead
None to date

This message was edited Apr 12, 2010 12:12 PM

I just picked up 4 "zebrina rojo musa" at lowes of all places. Price was good compared to most ($12/ea) so I bought all four of them. Will probably pot them vs putting in the ground so I can move them to the gh next fall for wintering over.

When I looked them up in plantfiles there are two varieties with similar name. What differentiates them, anyone know?