Chicks and Humidity (and also Dogs)

We get our chicks on Tuesday, and we're putting them in a really big tub (the kind I imagine you'd put water in for a horse - not metal though, kind of like hard plastic). We have six dogs, only one of whom stays in the house for part of the day and all night. We don't have a way to close off the room we want to put them in, and though I'm thinking we can put the tub on a counter (it may be too big), I'm still a little worried.

My in-laws run an angelfish business and raise them in a room by the garage. The room is heated all year round, and there is room in there for the tub. My concern is that it's VERY humid in there - they've got over 50 tanks. I know that birds tend to have sensitive respiratory systems, so I wasn't sure it would be safe to put them in there. If it would be, that would be ideal since the dogs rarely, if ever, go in there. We could make sure they don't.

Lastly, our dogs are: One German Shepard mix, two cocker/shitzhu/dalmation mixes, and three blue heeler puppies that are about six months old. They are constantly bringing in what we think are discarded parts from animal processing on nearby farms. Things like goat legs and heads and then squirrels and field mice. One of the cockers is hell-bent on killing squirrels as well. The coop and run will be enclosed for my girl chickens, but the males will be in an enclosed area of the barn at night (locking doors) and then free-range during the day. I'm terrified that my dogs will kill my boys. I need to get them acclimated to the chickens and teach them that they are NOT okay to eat. If any of you have any references to that kind of training info, or have personal experience about it, I'd really appreciate it. I don't want to have to cage my dogs (they love running all over the farm) but I don't want a chicken massacre either. We have coyote packs running the woods and if I can get them to guard the barn, that would be awesome.

You may wonder why I'm not putting the roosters in with the hens. I'm not keen on eating fertilized eggs, and when we are ready to breed, I want to do that in a separate pen that we will build when they get old enough. (i.e. put a RIR in with an RIR so I know what I'm getting chick-wise.) Anyway, your help will be greatly appreciated.

This message was edited Feb 14, 2010 6:35 AM

I keep my 5 dogs separated from the chickens by a fence--but any chicken that goes over the fence is dead. It has only happened a few times--and, although the dogs do not eat or tear the chickens up, the birds seem to die of shock.

It is horrible and very upsetting. I have an older German Shepherd female that I can take out into the chicken area with me and no problem--but this is not helpful, since it tends to make the chickens less fearful of dogs.

I don't think you can teach a group of free roaming dogs not to eat or at least chase and terrify chickens. One dog, supervised, might be a possibility. Or a puppy raised with chickens (even then, I would watch it closely during adolescence), but chickens are very tempting and dogs will form packs to chase them.

I would love to hear of anyone who has been able to make multiple high drive dogs leave chickens alone.

Our experience with an Australian Cattle Dog leads me to believe that the herding breeds cannot be taught to leave your other animals alone - even when fairly closely supervised. Our chickens also live on several acres behind a 5' fence. So far we've been lucky to catch any fly-overs before they were killed - just luck and the fact that they don't get out of the barn while they are still small and athletic.

As for the humidity: this area is very humid and the chicks do fine. I think modern chickens' ancestor was the jungle foul which lived in a very wet climate. I think the dogs are a bigger threat to the chicks than the humidity as long as their bedding can be kept dry.

I agree with you porkpal--I have 3 herding breed dogs and a livestock guard breed--but when the herding go at anything, the guard and even the 20 pound Boston join right in. The Border Collie's impetus may be to herd, but when the German Shepherd's prey drive takes over, they all work together to kill whatever they catch.

Otherwise they are very nice, well behaved and obedient house dogs.

We also had to fence the dogs in.We live on 5 acers and fenced a big part on one side of the house and back to the buildings so the dogs can still run back that way and scare any preditors that might be lerking close to any of the 4 building That there fence attaches to.We have lost way too many chickens,ducks and rabbits to our pack of dogs.its all in the chase for them.The 1st quick move a chicken makes sets off all the dogs.but when the chickens on the other side of the fence are just walking around and doin chicken things they dogs could care less.We have a couple of the dogs that we can take with us by the chickens but i agree with them both ya dont want ya chickens to loose that healty fear of dogs.As far as the humidity mabie just put a fan on low to keep some air moving for them that should be fine as long as its not so humid that everything in the room is wet all the time.

Thanks for the feedback, though I'll admit, it's disappointing. We are trying to find homes for the three heelers, but I don't know if the cocker is also a herding dog or if we can train them. I don't know enough about the breed - we just adopted them from my sister-in-law's dog's litter. Last night, the more rambuctous one pissed off a skunk, so he and one of the puppies absolutely REEK today!

I think the pack mentality is the biggest problem so fewer dogs will definitely be easier, but out cattle dog was a pack unto himself.

Definitely a pack thing...but there is always an instigator. I read a study that found that a common element in attacks by pet dogs running lose, is the combination of a terrier breed and a German Shepherd type....The terrier acts as the instigator and the GSD is the muscle.

I lost a cat to that combination years ago... the terrier and GSD had been roaming the neighborhood for weeks. It was only later that I learned it was a particularly lethal combination.

Interesting and very believable! (Sorry about your cat, we too have lost cats to dogs attacking as a pack.)

I think it depends on the breed somewhat, and also the relationship between the dog and the owner. Heelers are pretty driven and need a job to do though, as I understand, and so if they don't have any work to do, they will find something, rather like border collies. :)

I have an English Shepherd and as a breed, these dogs are bred to herd, guard, and hunt, BUT, they only hunt vermin, not the farm's animals. Oh, there are often puppy "accidents" where over-enthusiastic puppy tries to catch or herd the chickens and ends up killing them. But the dogs learn that "owner is alpha", and everything on the farm belongs to the alpha and must not be harmed. My particular dog never wanted to chase/kill chickens, although he did want them to play with him and would bounce at them the way dogs do to initiate play. This always resulted in scolding and directing him to play with a stick or something, so he learned to leave them alone and is perfectly trustworthy.

Pack mentality though, as others have mentioned, is the debbil. Even trustworthy farm dogs may transgress if young and egged on by other dogs not of a trustworthy breed. I heard a recent story of someone with a farmcollie and another breed (Great Dane or Doberman?) and one day they went after one of the barn kittens and damaged him enough he had to be put down. The owner did not see how the chase was instigated but was very upset that the farmcollie participated. Perhaps the farmcollie was not sufficiently bonded to the farm animals, or perhaps it was not above the other dog in pack order and so did not feel it could defend the cat, and once started, it joined in. The owner's other farmcollie, a female, was inside the house at the time, and when the owner brought the injured kitten inside, the female took one look at the kitten and then the two male dogs and drove them right out of the room and wouldn't let them near the kitten. It was like she knew, and maybe she did.

I feel that if mevnmart had ONE dog of any of the breeds mentioned in the original post and the dog recognized mevnmart as pack leader they may be able to train the dog that the "chickens are MINE, leave them ALONE."

BUT, with all of those dogs together, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Better pen up the roosters too somehow. I would also be worried about the damage that size pack could do running loose through the neighborhood. If they are already transgressing property lines and bringing back body parts from other farms' butcherings, that is not a good thing. It means they are roaming all over and not staying home and "guarding" the farm. I wouldn't really expect them to guard the farm, especially the cocker mixes. Not their fault, it's just not in their make-up.

Gosh, all of this is too true. My cocker mixes had always been penned or at the most, running a .16 acre backyard. When we moved to the farm, I was so excited because they could run. Fortunately too, they do stay in sight of the house, they just go into the cattle yard next door (we don't have any neighbors within shouting distance - the farms all around are quite large). But I do worry about them terrorizing the neighbor's cattle. Plus, no one has EVER seen the Shepard go to the bathroom, but the rest of the dogs just go where they please. I'll admit, I've never had a well behaved dog, and I blame that entirely on myself as I suck at training them. With two boys ages 2 and 3, getting out to train the dogs for 1/2 hour at a time has not been easy, nor has it been a priority. Part of the problem too is, I don't know what to do with them once I do spend the time. I've read books, but I just feel very underqualified to train them. They do see me as alpha, and they see my father-in-law as above me now that we're here. But the Shepard is the alpha in the pack. Perhaps once we re-home the heelers (which my mother-in-law rescued from the road - there were seven, and two others who'd been run over - it was a huge litter), we can concentrate on the two cockers since the Shepard has always been very well behaved.

I wish we could have a run for the roosters, and though they will be penned at night, I'm not sure what to do about daytime. Since we don't want to keep the hens and roosters together, and building two pens right now is outside our budget, I'm hoping that they can fend for themselves. In the meantime, I will likely have to chain my two cockers and introduce a chicken one at a time to them (also one at a time).

Our friend has a dog (collie mix maybe?) that she has been training (well, retraining - he had another dog show him that killing chickens was fun). She showed me that if you leash the dog and hold the chicken, when the dog shows interest in the chicken, she distracts him by poking his side. Then she lets the chicken run loose (dog still leashed) and again distracts the dog when he shows interest. He was with us the other day when we slaughtered three chickens, and she said she was very impressed that he was so well behaved. He did try to get some parts out of the bucket (the waste bucket) but he gave them back when she scolded him.

Ugh. What a situation. I'll keep you posted on our progress. Thanks everyone!

Eileen

Loose dogs and no fences are going to be a chicken problem. Mevnmart, yes, those dogs are used to foraging, and especially sounds as if the cocker is prey driven. The chickens will be toast :(. I have fenced areas for the cows and crossfencing that means a couple of deterrents to roaming dogs, but determined dogs will get thru. I try to keep the chickens behind the fencing, but it doesn't always work. So far, my own dogs haven't been an issue (they are trained and never run loose on their own), but the neighborhood ones who run loose in the area have been a problem. So much so, that I have been forced to arm myself. I've spoken to the owners, who just tell me to "Do what ya gotta do. Thump 'em". I really hope it doesn't come to that, why is it up to me to kill the dogs they refuse to treat responsibly ??

Sorry, roaming dogs are a hot button for me....

Roaming dogs are a hot button for me as well. We've had chickens killed in the past by dogs, at former residences. We have neighbors now whose hound roams wherever and whenever he pleases. After our dog chased him back home umpteen zillion times, it seems they have finally gotten the message because I have not seen the dog in a couple of weeks now, except one time I spotted him on their porch. Whether they are keeping him tied or what, I don't know, but he has not been spotted on our side of the property line lately.

Now, this dog did no harm, but he was just another example of what happens when dog owners do not make any effort to contain their animals. And, they should consider not only how their neighbors might feel, but the safety of their own pet. Coyotes have been known to kill dogs. A pack of coyotes is usually a match for one dog, particularly the average pet dog who has no idea of canine combat.

Anyway, just my little rant there about roaming dogs. :)

Hmmm...well, maybe I've been remiss in my dog ownership. The shepard doesn't roam off our property (or at least he didn't before my mongrels got here). I'm going to have to figure something out. I certainly don't want to piss off the neighbors...

I've had two corgis, both frequently around chickens--one in his older years and now the new one is just a pup. Corgis are hearding group but neither of mine seemed to want to do anything but watch the chickens and well, eat the poo. The dumped Catahoula-type doesn't show any aggression at all either, but the Shepard mix and the Rat Terrier/Chihuahua mix cannot be trusted. The chickens and peacocks stay in their coop and runs. We do have a problem with some "free range" Great Danes and have really fortified the coop and run and also the dog run (one of our dogs is an outside dog). We don't let our dogs run loose unless we are home and can see them. We also have coyote issues. The Cockers were originally gun dogs, so retrieving a bird would not be out of the question for them. I agree with all above. Try and keep the dogs separate from the chickens. No matter how well you train your dogs, your back will be turned at some point or other. You can't train hundreds of years of breeding and instinct out of a dog. Also, if you come home and find a dead chicken, how will you know which dog did it? Or even if it was one of your dogs--could have been the neighbors' "free range" dogs? I'd rather make sure it wasn't one of mine.....

I don't really think you've been remiss, mernmart, as you are here asking questions in order to get a good management plan in place. You've probably not lived out in the country/farm setting up till now (maybe) and dealing with dumped dogs is hard. I know (see above--the only dogs I actually purchased were the corgis).