DH and I have been doing some serious research into taking more control over our food, and have read more about goatkeeping that anybody would ever want to! lol...we think we will be ready to start this fall, hopefully with a bred doe and yearling. We have our hearts set on Nigerian Dwarfs (ND's) due to size, butterfat content and milking standards. Anyone out there who has kept goats strictly for their dairy needs (we hope never to have to eat them), please let us know your secrets, experiences, etc. Looking forward to your baaaah's :-)
Goatherding
You have made some very interestings comments. Welcome to the forum and there are some experts of which I am not one, that will be a blessing to you and your questions. Happy farming to you and DH. Haystack.
We are also new to raising goats and have had some hard lessons in the last couple of years.We are raising Nubians and nubians/ boar crosses.So i will definaly be watching this thread too.
Awww! What a cutie! (In case you haven't guessed, we love pictures of everyone's animals.)
Oh my! Such cuteness!
I think Moxon is crossing Pygmies with Angora to make Pygora--for fiber and milk. She should be along shortly......
Thats awesome cause I love to take pictures of my baby critters!!!! heres another cute lil baby picture.These are new born vietnamease pot belly piglets.
Piglets! My favorites! There is nothing cuter (or louder) than a baby pig.
awww cute baby animals!
I'm also planing to get some goats specifically for milk by next fall...I have my heart set on Toggenburgs because of there tolerances to cold, interesting history, and well, I think they're the cutest (sheepish grin) I've been doing tons of research, but I can't wait to see what responses you get.
welcome to the forum, and good luck with your goat keeping.
BATFLOWER: Shouldn't that have been a *capricious* grin? Couldn't resist...sorry. WOLFIE: Send me on of those little piggies, as long as they are the real thing (not the so-called Vietnamese that get to be as big as a regular sow!) I LOVE piggies...yes, we have done tons of research...we chose the ND's because I have rheumatoid arthritis, and my hands might not be able to handle the larger udders of the standard breeds. Did you say "nubian/boar" crosses??? BOAR? Surely you must mean the one goat I have not read about....please advise, and btw: CUTE!!!!!! Ok, so let's talk milk!
Oh: The one book that was more a simply beautiful narrative about a first year with goats is "Goatsong" by Brad Kessler. It was so beautiful it made me cry tears of joy for the plain and simple adoration of a simpler way of life....I highly recommend it. I can gather the other titles, and send them along as well for the newbies like me, and if any veterans have recommendations, please make them. The one book I want is David MacKenzie's Goat Husbandry, which seems to be out of print, and all my sources come up verrrry expensive...any ideas? Also: Would love some feedback about disbudding. Looking forward to chatting with my new caprine-minded friends...
Even the "real" Pot Bellies will get quite huge if you don't control their diet. Most people grossly overfeed theirs - unlike bigger breeds of pigs, the Vietnamese will overeat - to the point that they become "fat blind": their faces have fat obscuring their vision. Not their fault, the result of a doting owner who enjoys seeing them savoring various treats.
I'll see if I can post a picture of an older Pot Belly that we have who is still little and cute.
- Sooner or later...
Yes the pot bellys will get fat ya have to watch that. Roxy our oldest sow I really have to watch as she will get wrikles of fat that will come down over her eyes.She is also a bit lazy so she doesent work it off as well as the others.Thses are the true pot bellys they are about the same highth as a cockerspaniel dog or smaller.(less than knee high)
The boar goat we have introduced for our meat goat herd.They are not great for milking as they barly will make enough for a pair of twins but mixed with the nubian it gives them a better udder that can handle more babies and it produces a bit larger size goat.We have our main breeders that are our pets but we try not to name the babies out of them unless we are sure it will be one of the pets.Then we commence to spoiling them rotten!!
Our nubians are my favorite they are all our pets and they have the most loving sweet personalitys.even the billys are like a dog they want to be where you are and always looking for some loving. They( the boys) do get extreamly smelly tho when the girls come in heat.Kinda hard to hug them then ewwwww
here is a picture of a couple of gilts at about 8 months of age.The cat litter pan gives some idea of the size of the pigs.
As far as disbudding goes, do it!!!! you will be much happier and so will your goats.I have found that a buck with horns becomes the bully really fast.We lost our favorite goat a nubian buck (Jack sparrow) due constant bullying by a younger male with horns(Mojo)Mojo is a nubian boar cross our first baby born on our farm as we bought his mother Demi noir already bred.When he was about a year and a half he realized he had horns an the whole herd(who are mosly disbudded) has to bow down to him.We have threatend him with freezer camp many a time but we love him and have not done it as of yet.When we lost Jack sparrow I decided i will never have another goat with horns.Also they will get stuck in the fence and if ya dont check them several times a day you can lose a goat if they are stuck.They also can hurt each other and you if they are having a bad day and decide to butt another goat or you.This picture shows Mojo and his horns.He is the nubian boar cross the white goat with the black head.
Here is a the book for 12 dollars thought the shipping is a little high.
Yes, no horns.
You will be amazed at how smart(too smart) and agile(too agile) goats are. You'll definitely need a milking stand. Milk that's been out of the goat for eighteen hours is undrinkable, it gets "goatie"
Milking is fine, but seriously confines you. Every 12 hours, no matter what. And once we were milking three goats, we thought we needed more milk, so got a cow, then 4 gallons a day was wayyy too much, so we got a pig to drink the extra milk
I'll never go back to that lifestyle, too much work! But it was fun for a couple of years.
Have fun! keep a diary!
Melissa
Morrigan, try googling" Boer Goat". To see what the other half of the cross looks like.
Grownut has Boers. I'm surprised she hasn't popped in yet.
Grownut popping...yes. And I wondered about the Morrigan too, ;) All my goats, does and bucks alike have their horns. I really don't know what I'd do without the handles. The tips tend to curl which, to my mind, makes them less dangerous. I was wondering if crossing with the nubians tends to take the curl out. Which would alter the equation somewhat.
And I'm also interested in getting a doe for milk...I've wondered about Nubians or Kikos.
Mojo does have a little curl to his horns but i have had alot of trouble with them sticking their heads thru the fence then getting stuck there.Especially the does as their horns will go thru the fence easly but not want to come back out so smoothly.Goats are also the best escape artists i have ever had!I made the mistake of making them all spoiled rotten little pets and now if they see me outside they find a way out of the fence to be with me.They have jumped over crawled under knocked down sections we even tryed a good electric fence. you name they figure it out.It has been a real problem for us as we have been planting young trees for the last few years and they are killinig them all.They also like to go across the road to the grain silo over there as the farmer does spill some corn.They know where i keep the feed for the other animals and will do whatever they can to get in that building.They never forget!!!!invest in a good strong fence at least 4 foot and make sure ya pull it tight at the bottom or use tent stakes to keep it down.They are amazing.
We are suffering the same thing here. Right now they are corralled in the barn. Except the kids who are climbing everywhere...but sad as it is to say...at least the kids pose a danger only to themselves.
A funny story about escaping goats: the house just to the north of us was for sale and the goats belonging to a farther north neighbor had gotten out. I watched as a realtor tried to show the empty house with goats on the porch, in the garage and sitting on top of the air conditioner. The house did not sell that day!
Hehehe yep thats a goat all right im surprised they dident try to go inside and take a look around also.Mine would have! Rockey breaks into the house every chance he gets and heads directly for the couch or recliner.He was a bottle baby and doesent understand why he cant just stay inside the house with the poodles.
The realtor was shooing them off the porch with her briefcase - or they probably would have gone in.
Anyone else have African Pygmies? I have eight and they are all pets. Might put one in the freezer sometime this year though. They produce plenty of manure which I use on my roses. I love them.
Funny thing. In contrast to a poster above the only bully goat I have is a dehorned buck. I had to separate him from the others. He tried to killed a pair of twins last February.
My other two bucks have a nice set of horns and they don't bother each other much. I read somewhere that goats need their horns to help them regulate their body temperature in the summer. Anyone else heard this?
Never heard the temperature regulation theory but I know that some of the most belligerent cats I've met got that way after they were declawed - "I'm not defenseless, I've got teeth!" Goats too (?)
Looks like there is some disagreement among goat people. The first link probably doesn't prove it to be absolute truth. But I was pretty sure I had read it or heard it.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/30152426
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/farmlife/msg0610194427121.html
Interesting!
Wow! I guess it's just a matter of choice. I have also asked my old employer/vet what he thinks about disbudding. For ND's, it seems to be highly recommended as they tend to get them caught alot, and what I have been reading, nobody is quite sure about the horns and thermoregulation...here's another question: How many of you bottle-raise and why, vs. doe-raised and why? I have read alot of material on this as well, and it seems to come down to: socialized kids and control of diseases now appearing in alot of the milk(s).
I realized my mistake hours after posting the last reply that you meant BOER vs. BOAR...and felt totally ridiculous :-) Of course I know what the Boer's are...We are not planning on eating any of our friends, just milking, bettering the breed, and eating lots of delicious chevre and other cheeses......keep the info coming folks, as it all helps us in our desicion making process. And thaaaanks!
PS: Those little, gilts are tooooo cute! And yes, I know they will eat themselves into a coma....I have beagles and they will do the same thing teehee....
We have Nigerian dwarf goats, as well as an angora buck, a mini-Nubian, and 2 pygmies. We had Nubians in the past but I don't think I want to go back to them. We have bred the angora buck to 2 ND does, the mini-Nubian and a pygmy to see what kind of fiber we might be able to get from the crosses, while retaining the milking capacity of the does.
You can, while a kid is still nursing, just milk once a day. After a week or 2, you can let the kid have the evening milking and you take the morning milking, or vice versa. It does make it a little easier to manage.
We doe-raise but have had all our goats tested for Johnes and CAE so we do not have big concerns about that. If I hadn't had them checked, I would probably consider hand raising. All of our goats keep their horns - we like them as "handles" and since we are around them a lot, they are friendly and not aggressive. Even our buck is not aggressive. It does depend, to some extent, on the goat themselves and also, I believe, on how they are raised and how you handle any attempted butting incidents.
I guess it's easy for me to not disbud. I forgot to mention I fence with hot wire.
I want to start out saying how thrilled I am to hear that you are considering NDDG. I used to have a herd of 50. I was making 1 pound aged raw milk cheddar cheese.
Our farm was 5 acres and my ND had 3 fenced acres that I did rotational grazing on. The reason I did this was I didn't want to have to worry about worming which means that milk from a doe that was wormed can not be used for a set about of time and I didn't want to give up their wonderful milk.
When I first got my herd I wormed them and that was it. Never had to do it again. I invested in a good microscope as I did all my own fecal checks. I did checks ever month to make sure.
My herd was negative for johnes, CAE, hoof rot. I was very careful about the folks that came to my farm as they were never allowed to wear their boot/shoes in with my herd and I made them wash their hands first as well. Each farm develops its own unique germs, if you will, and that is good as my goats were going to me my work and income, so their health and well being was the top priority for me.
I always hand bottled fed the babies as that tamed them and was so much easier when it was time to get them on the milking stand. Just for fun I liked to train my babies to shake hands and walk on a leash and sit.... (I am an old collie breeder) so it was fun to teach them tricks.....
I had blue eyed does, and even had one doe who always produced 6 babies in each litter and they always had blue eyes.... She was my best milker, almost a gallon a day and for a ND that is wonderful. Her butter fat tested out at 11.4
I especially love the color patterns that the ND produce, you never know what you are going to get until they pop out.LOL
I chose this breed as I was the main one (not DH) and their size was very easy to manage on my own. My does were my pride and joy. Their individual personalities were so amazing. And the endless hours of watching my babies was time well spent in my book.
I can't say enough about this breed as I sure all the other owners have to say about the breeds they chose, but in my book, for everything they offer, and in a small size.... it can't be beat.
If you are wanting to make cheese all the better as they have the highest butterfat to their milk. If you don't already have places that you are interested in purchasing from, please dm me and I'll sent some friends of mine contact information to ya. I did a ton of research on different lines for their milking abilities. But if you are wanting to get started this year you need to decide shortly as most of the choice ones are usually taken by this time of the year.
Another great thing about the ND is they can breed year round as oppose to what the larger breeds usually have one main, possibly two breedings a year. And when you can spread out the breeding to me that is a bonus as you don't get as sleep deprive during birthing time. LOL
So if you have specific questions please feel free to ask away I love talking and sharing what I've learn with my herd.
Sadly to say we ended up having to move to OH from KY and I contracted with guy to take care of my herd while we were making the move to then only have him steal all of my herd. I had a signed contract but the county attorney said I would have to get a lawyer and for the county that was involved three different lawyers said I would end up spending a ton of money and still now get my animals back.... which I didn't have the money to fight then, This is one reason why I hate the law. Had I not had the contract then my registration papers would have allowed the sheriff to take me on their farm and collect my animals and all my pens, and farm equipment.
It was the most heart breaking thing to me.
One day, I'm in hopes of purchasing a few more just to have for the milk.
I also got into making my own goats milk soap and have not used commerical soap in 8 years. Now I get my goats milk from goat friends up here in Ohio.
So welcome to the wonderful world of Goat Ownership. They will wrap themselves around your heart strings faster than you would ever believe.
Janet
Janet:
How heartbreaking to have lost your herd in that way....I would have thought that reg. papers would have given you the upper hand, and if this guy stole them, he can't continue to officially continue to breed the line you had...his milk tests would have meant dick if he couldn't prove ownership. Did I miss something in there about the legalities? I SO hope you can get a couple of does soon to ease your heart and your desire for fresh milk.
We are in financial crisis, so we still have to recover a bit in order to built them a proper little barn and paddock area(s)...so if it takes me another year, at least I will be more than ready AND even more knowledgeable about what I WILL be doing. I am absolutely sold on the ND's because of their personalities, their size, their butterfat/milk ratio, and everything else I have read. I have a couple of farms I have already contacted about purchasing does from....I still have to find a real caprine vet in the area (not one who thinks that goats are sheep without the wool - lol)...so while we do have a ways to go to be on-the-ball ready for them, i know it will be worth waiting to do it right. Did you disbud? I have heard from some very reputable goat dairy people that they have had no problem with ND kids being doe-raised vis-a-vis their tameness...so I will likely let the kids nurse and share the milk at least at first...I will sure keep you in mind for questions, and I will be keeping this thread going as long as anyone is interested, as I want to gain as much knowledge as possible....we're hoping our financial black hole will start to close in time to at least purchase two bred does this autumn, so in the spring 2011 we will have kids on the ground and the beginnings of milk for the house...and cheese (as I learn)...and soap..and candles...I can hardly wait. Thank you!
no problem.
I did some dis-budding with eradicator bands, this is what you use to castrate the young bucks who aren't going to be used in a breeding problem. This was a longer process but it was easier on me. After the first few days the bucks don't even notice them anymore. The tool to do the horns and the smell was not something I could stomach so this is why I went this way. You can even dis-bud horns on older bucks.
I never really like the idea of horns and udders as the two really don't mix, but it can be done, you just have to be very observant with your herd.
I too used hog panels along with electric fence and never lost a got. Goats respect electric so they don't go close to it. Even the little ones, but if you use electric you have to make sure no weeds touch bottom lines as it will short out the fence and then no protection and look out cause it doesn't take them long before they know they can get out.... it is usually the kids that sound the alarm that the electrics off.....LOL
It is good to take your time, learning more while you get in better shape to have them. One thing about goats, no matter what breed, they don't like to get wet! Now sheep they could care less what the weather is...
By all means as away any questions I am more than happy to share what I know, little as it is, but it is an ongoing learning.
Janet
This may be a stupid question.. but i'd love to have goats but i was told no.. bc they eat everything.. is there a goat out there that doesn't eat every last thing that's not nailed down?
greykyttyn
funny but that is the nature of a goat. God created them to be the garbage eaters... they are especially good at clearing fields. They love the hard (sticker, thorns and so on) woods the most.... especially barn walls, which that can be stopped by adding a not eat treating to the wood....
If you are only planning on one goat you really need to reconsider as they do much better with another goat or dog as companion if no other animals around then they will be on you like bees on honey....LOL
I don't usually recommend bucks and especially bucks who are intact, they stink plain and simple and no getting around that...
Does are the best to have as they are more docile and don't smell... except for a good earthy animal livestock smell, which I so happen to love...teee heee
If ya find a goat that won't eat everything let me know...
Janet
About goats and hotwire. I do have a little doe that was jumping mine until I added a couple more strands of wire to make it higher. They will also go under if you don't make it low enough. Some of mine do anyway. But hotwire is the way to go for me. Been using it for 13 years now.
i was actually asked to take a rescue goat.. pygmy. he's bowlegged. Adorable.. it would only be him. but mom said no bc he'd eat everything.. i'm trying to work on her bc he still has no home & teh guy will only give him away local.
Awww....I'd take him....
He's so very cute. The little old man raises & sells them but he can't (won't) sell this one.. but he needs to get rid of him. no one wants him bc he's bow legged. but he's so very cute. But mom says he will eat every last plant in the yard & everything that's not nailed down.. so i can't have him but she thinks he's very cute too.. I think i can convince her to let me have him i just have to keep working on her. The little old man would like him to come live with me bc then he can come check on him anytime.