Any suggestions for keeping a lapins semi-dwarf short

I've been reading about how to keep cherry trees short for the purpose of more easily netting and harvesting. Does anyone do this and what is the best method? Anyone familiar with Spanish bush method or the "K something or other" method? I did a little research and some were saying that due to the upright manner of growth on the Lapins certain pruning techniques were better for this variety. It also talked about trying to increase the angle of the branches. I don't want to try bark inversion that is just a little to advanced for me. At this point I have planted the tree and it has four main stems coming from the top of the trunk. I'm thinking of heading these back by a third. Does a cherry respond like a spur bearing apple from pruning down to 4 - 6 buds one year and then 1 bud the next and then 4-6 and so forth. Also, I have a Fuji semi-dwarf, a frost peach semi-dwarf and a weeping Santa Rose plum I just planted that i need advice on. i'm inexperienced but want to try to do a good job right here at the beginning. thx for any input. I was referred to "The Backyard Orchardist
". Anyone familiar with this book.think it might help answer these questions? I'm thinking of trying to espalier one of these also. Which one should i do? I have so many questions about these trees. I need a good reference book or several. Honestly, my brain is hurting from the hodgepodge of info I'm getting through google.

I do not have your answer but if I had that question, I would email Raintree:

customerservice@raintreenursery.com


They have always been good about answering my questions. See what they do.

They may suggest that you graft your Lapins to a different root stock, but again I would defer any opinion to someone who actually knows what they are talking about. That is not me. I am guessing.

Rick

A lot closer to home for you would be the Dave Wilson Nurseries. They have a very informative web site and very helpful representatives. They are practically in your backyard. Don

Wonderearth, The number chill hour units needed by Lapin to break dormancy are cited by various sources and range from 400 hours to 700 hours. The third link cites a study in which Lapins broke dormancy at 539 chill hour units. The first link gives the average number of chill hours you get in Santa Cruz as 415. You will find that on some years, your tree will produce little or no fruit. According to Dave Wilson's site, Frost peaches require 700 chill hours. If this is indeed true, you won't get fruit from this tree as your area only averages 415 chill hours.

When I consulted our local Extension Service agent, I was advised to err on the safe side and stick to cultivars that require no more than 100 chill hours less than the number we average so my chances of getting fruit every years will be better.

Of the trees you mentioned, the apple tree would lend itself better to an espalier form since the spurs that produce the fruit are long lived. You might also contact your local Extension Service agent for help. They and you have access to one of the best ag sources — UC Davis. This last link is for their Backyard Orchard.

http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/chillcalc/index1.htm
http://www.davewilson.com/br40/sales_catalogFruit.html
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:wmawahgzFBsJ:www.biocerezas.cl/docs/gratacos/IFTA/Chilling_requirements_of_cherry_cultivars.pdf+chill+hour+requirements+for+sweet+cherries&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbQwGJfcP4nDd0fnWq22YOpwDPpPtw
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/

thank for the links. leaning towards trying to espalier the apple but i have to swap the peach and the apple. i just planted the a couple weeks ago. I was I know its a bit of zone denial on the cherry but there are a few trees around our neighborhood that do fruit and its such a novelty!
Thank you everyone for the help. The Dave Wilson link is really encouraging.

thank for the links. leaning towards trying to espalier the apple but i have to swap the peach and the apple. i just planted the a couple weeks ago. I was I know its a bit of zone denial on the cherry but there are a few trees around our neighborhood that do fruit and its such a novelty!
Thank you everyone for the help. The Dave Wilson link is really encouraging.

Anyone ever tried to spread limbs to increase the angle from the trunk?

Sorry about the double post. Reading about spring weather patterns and peach fruit size explains an crop of small peaches we had one year while the year before was really big! So interesteing.

womderearth, Yes I have successfully spread the limbs to increase the angle from the trunk. You have to do it right from the start when you first put the bare root tree into the ground. I don't believe you would have much success after the trunk and limbs gained significant size.

I used hand made carved wooden spreaders. I understand weights at branch tips can also be used. I seem to remember that the Dave Wilson site has a discussion and demonstration of this useful cultivation technique. Don

Thx don

If you have a branch that is too old to spread, cut it back to an outward/downward facing bud and spread that instead as it grows out. If it is already starting to split in the crotch, it is better to take one branch out completely.
Re: dwarfing: The bud closest to the pruning cut will want to have aggressive upright growth, the next bud below it (on the same side) will tend to have semi-aggressive lateral growth, the one below that will have more desirable sedate lateral growth. So pick the bud you want to save, cut two buds above that, and cut it back again after the angle and growth pattern is set (usually the next year). Does that make sense? It is hard to explain when I can't see your tree, and you can't see mine.

I understand. Do you have any pix of trees you've used this technique on?

I will look when the weather clears. My current trees are fairly new & I've done very little pruning on them. The trees I used to prune are old and have passed on to other hands - but are still available for photos I hope. I am sure I can come up with some "learn from my mistakes and don't do this" photos. Maybe I could do a whole series of photos on how not to prune a tree ...

That sounds very educational, lol! i love to see that thread.

pollengarden, Nothing better than learning from other peoples mistakes. Don

Hello, I am also trying to learn something about pruning fruit trees. I need to work on apples, plums, a pear tree, several cherries and a fig that I have planted in the last few years. Though I have read about pruning in various books, it never seems very clear what to do when I am confronted by an actual tree. I would be really grateful to see pictures of what to do and not do. This would be very helpful and informative. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.

A really easy and fast way to get your cherry trees pruned back would be to call in a nice porcupine.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/461452/

One did the job on my cherries in the middle of the night. It took a few nights before I figured out just who was pruning my cherries after dark. All the cherry trees lived but I did not think that they would make it.

Seriously, the point is you can really over do the pruning and your trees will probably recover. If these cherries recovered fine, then do not worry about one or two wrong prunes.

Rick

Well, Wonderearth, it is snowing again here and my boss has scheduled a meeting on my day off. So my pictures of old pruning jobs won't come back to haunt me/us until next week.

Meanwhile, here is an example of too much dwarfing. This is a thorn-less Hawthorn, which is very similar to a crab-apple. My garden group had to move it from our old demonstration garden to our new one. I volunteered to prune it for the move - several of the other members couldn't bare to watch (I'm not joking). I removed nearly half the tree in several smaller pruning sessions spread over six months. Since the group said they liked the "gnarled picturesque" aspects of the tree, that is what I left. I pruned out all the upright growth with upright growth coming out of it, and left all the slow-growing lateral growth with more lateral growth coming out of it.

I did too good a job. Between my ruthless pruning and the loss of roots during the move, the tree is truly bonsai/dwarfed. It has been 3? years now and it hasn't tried any upright growth - only lateral. Did I mention that a Hawthorn is a tree? With a trunk? The Crown shape isn't bad, if it had a 3-4' trunk under it.

Wow!

This tree is across the street from my parents. The person who planted moved away, two other people have told us that it is a Lapins. My Mom thinks it is too big for a Lapins and more likely a Stella. If it is a Lapins, your concerns about keeping yours small are justified. As far as we know, no one has ever bothered to prune it. It has a natural pretty shape, but they don't get many cherries from it because 1) they can't reach them and 2) the birds get there first because they can't get a net over it.

This is one of my parents Bings. They have been pruned and mis-pruned by various people over the years. One of the problems with cherries is that they don't like to send new branches out of old wood. You want to start getting a framework set early - because if you have too much trunk you are stuck with it. Do not prune your tree before the roots are established - see my thread "Remember your Roots".

Here is the other Bing. They don't bear too well, probably because they are both Bings which need a pollinator. These trees aren't pretty, but the cherries are in reach. All the good pruning cuts are mine, the rest are someone else's (Ha ha ha - at least that is my story and I am sticking too it).

Here is an apple tree that shows the long term effect of various pruning cuts a little better than the cherries. If the branch takes a slight jog, then continues up at the same angle - then that was an outward facing bud right below the pruning cut. If the branch comes out horizontal, then turns upward in a "J" or "L" shape, that was either 2nd bud down from the original cut or already a small branch when the cut was made directly above it, and it turned upward in response to the cut. You can repeat this and have a series of Js strung together. If it continues out horizontally, it was either the third or more bud below the original cut, or it was already an established horizontal branch when the cut was made directly above it, or both.

More branches on the same tree. The horizontal branches toward the top usually get "water sprouts" shooting up. These have to be removed every year. This tree is a unique heirloom that bears well.

PollenGarden That thorn-less Hawthorn is a thing of beauty. You can tell that it has seen a lot of pruning over the years and by someone who really knows what they are doing. Thank you for posting it. That picture is my current desktop background.