Transplanting a gardener to the PNW

Dear gardening friends, I am seriously contemplating a move to the Pacific Northwest. It's been a dream of mine since I was college-age, and now, in my 50's, it might become possible. I've been cruising the real estate market online, throughout the Puget Sound area, and find the Gig Harbor zone offers the most bang for my buck, as far as I can tell. (Advice on that gladly accepted! Might need to be within commute range of Seattle, due to daughter's career.) But gardening - that's what has to be great, in order to get me to give up living on a lake in Minnesota. To tell the truth, it shocks me how bland and uncreative so many of the yards are in the publicity photos, considering what should be possible! (But then, the same thing struck me on a trip to England, over which midwestern gardeners have been known to drool.) Whereas here in Minnesota, gardening and landscaping seems to be a major thing just about everywhere; maybe because we rest and dream of it all winter, and explode with enthusiasm in May. But that's by the by.

What I was wondering if you could help me with, is advice about what to watch out for - what to avoid, if anything; what to seek, what to ask about. I kind of hope for a place with mature trees - but perhaps it is so rainy in the winter months that that won't matter to me out there, the way it does here? And especially, should I be careful about soil depth and so on? Will I need to work hard at improvement? What is the general character of the soil - loamy, sandy, gravelly, clay, organic, heavy, light -- what? Are there often watering restrictions in the summer, when the rainfall declines? Should I look for a place with a watering system, or don't people bother with that?

I want to have some vegetables; and can I grow raspberries? Can slugs be held at bay, or is the idea of hostas idiotic? Perennials: does the somewhat cooler summer there make for longer blooming periods, as it does in my mother's Alaska garden? Also, I love designing with foliage, particularly in part-shade, and really want to carry on with that; can I use some of these plants even where there is more sun, if it's not too hot? Where should I go in the area, to look for garden inspiration?

Well, just anything anybody wants to offer advice about, would help me in developing my ideas. I visited the area so often as a young person, and admired it greatly, but I wasn't so much of a gardener then, and didn't pay attention to certain fundamentals. Thanks very much for any observations.

Joan

So much to think about!!! You can have it all here. The backdrop everywhere is green, due to our native conifers (fir, hemlock, cedar). Trees grow faster and bigger than in their native climates because of our milder temperatures and relatively little water shock.

I think most soil is clay and acidic, but it will vary. Our full sun isn't as hot as others, and how much sun you get will depend on the maturity of the trees.

We have lots of bodies of water on the west side of the mountains and lots of hills and curves and dips, which make things interesting in summer as well as in winter.

Here's a picture of what it looks like in the foothills of the Cascades. I'm 25 minutes from Seattle to the northeast (if I were to travel in the middle of the night), but during rush hour it takes a little over an hour to get there from where I am in Woodinville.

We look forward to sharing more with you and helping your plan your relocation!

Other ecosystems will vary in soil and sun and you'll hear from people north, south and west of me . . .

A lake in Minnesota sounds lovely, but I know the winters in that area are not easy (says one who has driven through the beginning of a blizzard in southern Minnesota and decided to stop and find lodging rather than continue on).

I ditto what Katie59 says about the soils, mostly clay and acidic due to the glacial geologic history of the area, conifer forests, and rainfall. It takes a lot of amending to make it more loamy. Even so, there are areas that have a deeper soil and other places where it is downright sandy and drains quite well. There are many micro-climates within any smaller area of the region because of changes in elevation, proximity to large bodies of water and the effects of the smaller and larger mountain ranges, hill, and the gaps through which come the rain and wind. That makes it sound rather miserable, which really it isn't. The temperatures are moderate, and the summers usually dry and sunny for days. People do have watering systems because of the relatively dry summers, but it isn't scorching here, and if you plant with a degree of drought resistance in mind for most of your garden, save the plants that need more water to specific areas of your garden you can get by quite well with a hose and watering can. Certain water companies might have watering restrictions during dryer months, but this is not the rule, just depends on the system you are on. there are many properties with private wells, and then you make your own call about water conservation.

You can definitely grow raspberries and lots of other fruits and berries. When I first moved out here (from Chicago) I was amazed by the amount of food free for the taking along the byways, blackberries in particular. In the vegetable arena, there are some things that are harder to grow here, the ones that require a very long, warm growing season, but there are varieties developed with shorter time to harvest, and certain tricks you can employ to extend your season. The slugs do become annoying, but there are things you can do about them too, discussed in detail almost every year by the gardeners here.

What to look out for: Make sure your property has a good water well or has a share in a reputable water system (believe me there are horror stories). Make sure the septic system functions, and/or the property perks. I wouldn't personally want to buy property too close to a river that might flood, below a cliff that might slide, or smack on the beach. If there is a creek, check if it is salmon habitat and get to know about required construction setbacks if you are buying land to build on. I think the ideal property would be one with a mix of trees/forest and open spaces. I have one with just the open spaces and Iwish for shade in the summer. On the other hand, a friend of mine rented a house in the woods for a few years and she really missed the warmth of the sun.

Wow, lots of questions and I'm sure you will get lots of answers. My main and primary draw to the west side is that it is truly temperate. I spent most of this weekend working in the yard, comfortably. I know my sister on the east side cannot even contemplate this until perhaps April. But, we don't get the extreme hot over here (another plus in my book, but not in everyone's). Slugs are a major problem, but a daily 'garden tour' with a salt shaker does wonders. I have lots of hostas. Here's a view down my back hill to our farm pond in the fall -- very peaceful.

Lots of good advice already. Here's what I'll add, since you are looking in the Gig Harbor area. First, it costs $4.00 to cross the bridge between Tacoma and Gig Harbor, and that's only going to go up. Ferries are equally expensive. If a commute to Seattle is in the works, think carefully before buying on the Olympic peninsula. Also, Gig Harbor is one of the more expensive places to buy. I'm not sure where you are seeing more bang for the buck there, but that surprises me. There are other places on the peninsula that will be less expensive and very nice.

One thing you will want to keep in mind if you buy on the peninsula (and many other areas) is the existance of what is called 'hardpan' under the topsoil. Basically, it's a heavy layer of clay that is almost impermeable to water. During the winter, it creates a situation where the soil above it just does not drain worth a darn. I'm talking about a layer of clay that is well below the surface, so amending the soil above does not do anything to it. People on the peninsula, like my sister, have areas where they have standing water most of the winter due to hardpan beneath the surface.

In my opinion, the best time to look at houses here is in the winter because all of the drainage problems will be readily apparent. Also, you will be able to appreciate how dark big trees make houses. Its easy for everything to look bright and cheerful when the sun is shining in the summer and we haven't had rain for a month. Big trees are beautiful and really appreciated during the summer, but in the winter they can create a lot of gloom when it's been raining for awhile. Also, because we have so many conifers, especially Douglas Firs, there is a lot of yard cleanup. Winter brings many opportunities for high wind and these very tall trees are meant to 'self prune', if you get my drift. After a storm, which is a common occurrence, the yard is littered with small fir branches and sometimes with large fir branches, depending on the wind. Some people remove all of their Douglas Fir trees, but that's always a shame in my book. They are really beautiful, in spite of having to clean up after them in the winter. If you can afford to get a piece of property that has room for big trees, but also keeps the house and garden areas free of large trees, that is good. Also, I would recommend having trees on the north side of the property so that they do not create too much shade in the winter. I have very large trees all over my property, and my neighbors have big cedar trees at their fenceline. I never see the sun in the winter. In addition, in order to do well with vegetables like Holly does, you need to have space that is not shaded. Even though I have some areas of my yard that are considered 'full sun', I have never been able to grow vegetables because the 'growing season' in my yard is too short.

You can definitely grow hostas here and have fabulous shade gardens. Slugs can be kept at bay. You should stick around on our threads and then you will get the feel of northwest gardening. One thing is for sure. Gardening is a year round activity here.

Where you should go for inspiration depends on where you will be visiting and what kind of gardening you like. On the peninsula, Dragonfly Farms is highly recommended in terms of a beautiful garden and nursery. It's in Kingston.

Here is a list of public gardens:
http://www.gardenguides.com/local-garden-walks/us-wa/

You'll find that many public areas have spectacular gardens, even if they are not listed as a public garden. And, naturally, you'll find lots of inspiration on this forum :)!

Good point about the bridge!!

The good thing about clay is that it does hold nutrients and doesn't dry out right away. The upper part of my property is hardpan, but is on a hill and so the water all runs down into the wetland. You can design to handle some of the situations Pixydish is referring to and many people have. She's made a great suggestion for you to look in the winter so that you can see potential problems associated with rain.

One thing about our weather - it typically comes from the south and the west (this keeps our temps moderate). So you don't want to have big trees to the south of you if they're in the vicinity of your house or outbuildings unless you're sure of their health. This tree was perfectly healthy, but sitting in water during a huge storm. Because the first aren't really ever truly water-stressed, their roots don't go down that deeply. I was fortunate that the tree was to the east of the house.

An event on this scale doesn't occur that often, but trees hitting houses does occur to a few houses in the area every year.

I know we are making it sound like no one in their right mind would move here (especially given the amount of rain we're going to get this week), but it's only because you asked about potential problems. Gardening here is probably easier than anywhere else in the U.S.

I have to be kind about emailing my sister, who only lives on the eastern side of Washington, about working in the yard in January (for example). I am a temperate person, and this climate is well suited to me. I don't like extreme heat or extreme cold. We have lovely seasons, and for the most part can go outside and do something just about any time of the year (weather permitting). We do get a lot of rain, and some folks have a problem with that. I grew up here, so I guess I'm just acclimated to it. I don't think you can beat the early spring greening of the PNW though, it is truly spectacular.

Yup. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the U.S!

Thanks *so much,* everybody. I've "wasted" hours and hours over the last several days, looking at real estate. It's surprising though - in spite of what Pixydish said about the Gig Harbor area, I did see more homes there, toward the south and west, that I really like, in the price range I'm willing to offer, than I saw on the mainland. Homes that looked like they didn't have must-fix problems, and that looked like they had the space I really want. Most of what I saw on the mainland was just kind of OK. And I really need this to be a move I am in love with, to inspire me to give up 10 acres, partially wooded, on the lake.

I've been checking on the expense involved in getting back and forth over the sound; it seems like more of a time issue than an expense one. I found some properties near the Clinton terminal that I really love, where property taxes are low enough compared to further south, like on Vashon, that it makes up for the cost. Personally, I'm mostly content with just being where I am and if it's small-town, I'm happy with that; but if my daughter needs to commute, we might have to come up with another option.

At this point, I'm wide open. I like Port Angeles/Port Townsend, particularly because I hear good things about the symphony - I'm a violinist and teacher. Leaving out the possible commute issue, is that area gardenable? It's a little more developed, so maybe the job-hunt would be more practical there.

I look at OP photos and lots of places actually look quite brown, particularly around Bremerton. What's up with that? Doesn't remind me of my experience of Washington! Is the rain shadow all that effective? Do I need to keep out of the rain shadow, in order to garden comfortably? I do like the idea of not quite so much rain, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot either. I also like the idea of having a well and an at least somewhat automated system, so I can spend my garden time picking slugs, deadheading, weeding, and generally tweaking: what I really love. Touching plants.

Ha ha, Pixydish, on Saturday I was looking at the weather reports for your area and really cringed! Especially as we here are finally getting a bit of a warm-up - no more below-zero nights for quite a while, highs in the teens to twenties, bright sun on snow pouring light into the house - and contemplating days of persistent rain wasn't quite what I had in mind. I didn't tell my daughter, who would be coming with me, about the weather report. So, is it raining really hard enough to where you don't want to go for a walk, or is it just a drizzle?

Bonehead, our family is all for temperate weather too. Long pants year-round is fine with us. (I grew up in Anchorage.) We were in Wales with relatives a couple of summers ago, and loved it.

Katie59, those site-specific hazards will definitely be on my radar, along with flooding and landslide potential. I had five big ones like that come down in my woods a couple of summers ago, after a two-week wet period followed by a huge storm. I only managed to chainsaw out the worst-placed ones, and still have a lot of work to do. Family members and neighbors who offer to help tend never to show up - part of the reason I don't feel the least bit bad about leaving the area. They mean well, they're sympathetic, but they can't really spare the time. (A whole 'nother issue.) My hands can't take the weight of the saw on big projects anymore, so I'm going to hire it done. Darn it.

Well, I am encouraged today. Yesterday I was discouraged. Thanks, everybody!

Both are very gardenable areas, and popular for retirement, as they're warmer and dryer than on the other side of the sound. That having been said, they're not really dry, compared to most of the U.S.

For instance, Sequim (near Port Angeles) has a very successful lavender festival because of the warmth and relative dryness. Port Angeles is only about an hour and a half from Forks (of Twilight fame), which gets some the highest rainfall in the U.S.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=port+angeles,+washington&daddr=forks,+washington&geocode=&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=44.715514,-99.755859&sspn=30.45705,56.337891&ie=UTF8&ll=48.032183,-123.914795&spn=1.800023,3.521118&z=8

Here are some pictures of Dan Hinkley's Heronswood, the famous nursery, which is only an hour south of Port Townsend. They were taken in July of 2008. It's a woodland setting.

http://picasaweb.google.com/katiegirl2u/HeronswoodOpenHouse2008?feat=directlink

And then, here are some pictures of Hinkley's Windcliff, which is a little farther south, in Indianola. This property is right on the water, looking south toward Seattle.

http://picasaweb.google.com/katiegirl2u/WindcliffSeptember52009#

Have you thought at all about renting first and then buying once you've been out here a bit and looked around?

Joan,
Keep in mind that satellites can only acquire imagery when the ground is NOT covered in clouds. Most likely that imagery was acquired in summer or fall. In summer we do (or can, doesn't always happen) have long periods without rain-unlike this time of year. At the moment, our yearly rain total is already over 4".

Another thing that Pixy may not have mentioned about Gig Harbor is the freeway backups to the bridge. I drive up to Seattle relatively frequently and the worst traffic in the Tacoma area tends to be the lanes and onramps to the bridge. They're often stop and go when the mainline is pretty wide open, particularly from NB I-5.

edited to add an important "not"...

This message was edited Jan 13, 2010 8:09 PM

Hello and welcome Joan, Have you investigated Bainbridge Island in Kitsap County? A thirty minute ferry ride to Seattle. They are comparable to Gig Harbor as far as atmosphere, small town, space, trees. Or over the AgatePass bridge around Poulsbo. Most of northern Kitsap is rural. There is lots of water, salt or lakes around that area also.
Kingston area has a ferry to Edmonds, just north of Seattle. It is a very nice area and you would have Heidi at Dragonfly Nursery to give fantastidc advice and plant selection. And it's only a few miles from Poulsbo. Good Luck. I've been here since 1941 and love it also. I was born in Indiania. No way would I live there again.

Patricia, I love that picture!

It's true you are going to find certain types of houses in the Gig Harbor area. Many of them are newer, because that area has seen a lot of development in the last 10 years. Gig Harbor is an attractive town. My sister lives there. They have a new shopping area that is very, very nice. It's just difficult to commute to Seattle from there. If you are considering a commute to Seattle, Port Townsend/Sequim is really too far to consider in my opinion. It's much further than it appears as the crow flies and there is considerable traffic. In addition, the Hood Canal bridge opens for marine traffic with little notice. Traffic must wait until the waterway is clear. This can take a long time sometimes. Here is a very cool website where you can actually see cameras that show the traffic conditions in different parts of the state. I love this website because I consult it before driving anywhere on the highway. http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/hoodcanal/ Traffic is the number one problem in terms of getting anywhere around here, not distance.

I agree that Bainbridge would be worth looking at and there are fabulous world class gardens there. Also, an easy ferry ride to Seattle. Also the Kingston, Indianola area would be an easy to commute Seattle if one didn't mind the ferry cost. It's very rural and many artists live in that area. Indianola is a small community that is tucked away. Again, many artists live there.

I don't know where you got the info that Port Townsend/Port Angeles is more developed. Actually, I'm pretty confused by that. Port Angeles used to be a logging town, but now no one is likely to find good jobs in either of those places. Port Angeles is a depressed area, and Port Townsend's biggest industries are wooden boats and tourism. It's pretty but the summer there is very crowded. The rain shadow makes a very big difference in terms of the amount of cloud cover and rain, but all areas of Washington are excellent for gardening. Many people retire somewhere along the Port Angeles, Sequim, Port Townsend corridor because it is beautiful, much of if is in the rain shadow, and it's less congested. Except in the summer. It's pretty congested in the summer. If you'll notice, there is really one major road that takes on around the outside of the Olympic Peninsula, because the interior is either National Park land or Native American land. Everyone uses the same road.

In terms of rain, we're talking actual rain, not just drizzle. We have drizzle more days than not in the late fall and winter, but when we say rain, we're talking buckets. I definitely do not want to go outside for a walk, although some people would. These are the days when it's nice to have wide open space around your house because you get more light that way. Here is the best weather website for this area. This guy has a very respectable track record in forecasting. The farmers in Oregon depend on him. We're in for some nasty wet weather in the foreseeable future here:
http://www.ovs.com/weather_cafe.htm

Clinton is on Whidbey Island, which has some very nice places and is generally less crowded than surrounding areas. Chocolate Flower Farm is on Whidbey Island. Gwendalou lives on Whidbey. You could dmail her and she can give you the lowdown about Clinton. Whidbey is very rural in feel, has beautiful beaches, and some very nice little towns.

It probably is really good advice to rent for awhile until you know the area more. The Puget Sound region is really a mixed bag, even more so than some other areas. And our population densities and traffic congestion make choosing a place to live more difficult.

Joan, I am also a MN transplant but have now been here for 30 plus years. You will have all of the advantages of MN gardening, with the exception of the hot climate types of veggies and will have a wealth of new stuff to learn about and grow also. It will be quite the adventure but your source of information here at DG will put you years ahead of the time it took me to get as far as I am. As far as the good tomatoes as well as a huge variety of fruits go, there are plenty of sources to get them fairly inexpensively as they are grown only a short distance away in either E WA or in Oregon.

I second and third the motion of doing a LOT of investigating before making a permanent commitment. Don't be afraid to ask here daily!

And DO take note of the advice that distance as the crow flies doesn't mean much around here. I have friends who live about 12 miles away as the crow flies, but it takes about an hour to drive there because of geological issues. Then, if you add traffic problems, you have more issues.


Yes, the rain and dark get old after a while but you will rejoice by mid February when you can feel spring in the air and see your plants more than just starting to show promise. Often the rain is just drizzle and it has been said that PNW people never change plans because there might be "rain" in the forecast. I did not own nor feel the need for an umbrella for many of the first years I lived here. Keep the winter weather in mind, however, and choose a home with LOTS of windows. Many of the older homes have such small ones that the dark can seem a lot darker.

Looking forward to hearing about your progress. Sharon

And buy a house on a hill like Sharon did! We have our first flood watch of the year.

Ah, yes. A perfect time to be looking at potential homes in the area. Look for appropriate clues and if you see any sandbags, go to a different neighborhood.

My son brought up a funny observation he's heard from several college friends (non PNWers) -- WHY don't you people ever carry umbrellas?? I really don't know the answer, but I've never been an umbrella person, even though they are quite effective if you do happen onto one. Seems we just turn up the collar of our jacket, tuck our heads down a bit, and carry on... I do have a favorite gardening hat that sheds rain like a champ, so I don't really notice how wet I am until I strip down on the side porch.

Umbrellas are absolutely necessary in Midwestern heavy rainstorms in the Summer, when the humidity and warmth would cause you to swelter in a raincoat, becoming as wet from sweat as if you had just gone out in the rain to begin with. Here in the Northwest, where the rain is not usually so heavy, just the incessant light rain and mist, a raincoat will suffice, and if you are not going a far way or staying out too long a little raindrops in your hair won't matter. Besides that, we like to DO things with our hands while we are out in the rain and holding an umbrella gets in our way. That said, I do have enough sense most of the time to wear a rain hat when working in the rain for an extended period. I also do use an umbrella when taking my class out to the buses after school because I have to check them off on my bus list and it is a real pain if the paper gets wet. Also, I can keep a few kids under it who have not worn appropriate clothes for the weather that day.

I lived here for years without an umbrella. But the last few years I have started carrying them in the car, especially with weather like what we are currently experiencing. lately it's been raining so hard, I don't even walk to the car without it.

I very seldom use and umbrella or even a coat now days. I don't mind being a little wet.

Hi everybody! This is great - thank you! Some responses below. But just to send us off in another direction - if any of you could move in the PNW, where would you move to and why? Or, if you want to stay where you are, why? And finally, no place is perfect; so, if you could change something about where you are and then be perfectly content (soil type, light type, yard space, watering system, more or less trees, greenhouse/solarium), what would it be? No fair hypothetically changing the weather though, or getting rid of tourists! And you only get to change the soil by amendment, or hauling something in.

Speaking of solariums, why do I see ZERO of these, or of sun rooms/conservatories, in the real estate listings? That seems very odd. They're so very common in Wales, where the weather is quite similar.

Hills: yes, definitely! Or at least a slope; and partly for site interest, as well as drainage. My lake has no outlet, and there have been flooding threats that when we bought this place, we had no idea about. So I'm very conscious of water issues, and refuse to buy anything by a creek or wetland, or in a natural watershed.

Bonehead: you can get that wet and not be either hot and sticky, or chilled? That sounds just lovely --

Traffic is, actually, my main concern about getting around in the Puget Sound area, with all the geographical challenges. Is it reasonable to travel by public transportation, once you get into Everett or other mainland ferry terminal? I suppose it depends on one's ultimate destination, but assume the more urban, built-up area.

Gosh, glad to have that input about the Ports! I had no clear idea. I shall ditch the Port Angeles/Port Townsend area unless somebody says something really nice about it. It doesn't sound like there are any employment advantages to it, and real summer crowds would drive me nuts. *Thanks* for that lead. I looked at Bremerton on maps.google.com, where you can actually do a "walking tour" on some streets. I didn't have time to go very far, but that area too didn't look very happy. Sort of bedraggled.

Bainbridge - I'll keep my eye on it. But what I've seen is more expensive for what you get, and seems to be in more need of repair, than elsewhere. And there are a lot fewer properties in my price range. Ditto for Vashon. Though I suppose in either case something special might pop up at some point.

I'm thinking Whidbey Island at the moment. I sail - I have a 13' dinghy - and there are some places where it looks like it's seldom crowded, where I could get her down to the water, not far from places where I could afford to buy. If kayaks can be safe there, so can I. I love quiet, and the basics of a small town are all I need, except very occasionally. Ferry to Everett is supposedly 20 minutes. Being somewhere that I can reasonably get to a launch spot for the boat would be a definite plus.

Rent vs buy: I'll try to do a good job of scouting, but I can't rent. I'm a low-income person, and that's not likely to change. I can make it where I am because I am debt-free; and because my present place is worth enough to exchange for a very decent place out there, and maybe even have some capital left, if I get what the property tax assessors say it's worth. But I can't squander that capital on rent. If it comes to it, I'll move twice. Won't be so hard, I'm sure, after the first move! So much stuff will surely still be in boxes, ha ha! But all your comments about what's a decent area and what is not, are very helpful. If I start getting serious about a place, I'll ask more specific questions.

Why is it that we keep so much that we are content never to see for years at a time? It feels disloyal, I think, to let go of things that were once important, or that take us back to another time. But since my husband passed away, I am very well aware that none of the Things is really Him. When he was living, he was very much about Now, and used and appreciated the things of Now, just like I do. He never pawed through memorabilia, though he treasured a couple of possessions - not valuable - that had belonged to his beloved parents. And as he was dying, he wasn't interested in things from years ago at that point either. The only thing that matters are the people whose lives you touch, and who touch yours. (Being in the PNW will put me much closer to my Mom.) So when I think of packing strategies, I think of packing only those things I really want or will actually use, and things that my children might want, and leaving behind everything else. I might have some regrets, but I think only small ones that I will be able to set aside.

I *do* hope to take divisions of each of my favorite hostas, however! ;-)

Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart!

J

Where does your Mom live -- that would be a good starting beacon. And, are you limiting your thoughts to the west side, or would you also consider eastern Washington? Totally different.

Mom's in Anchorage. Love it in summer - so much light, and usually so temperate - but those long winters, though less severe than MN, are what I want to get away from. For Mom, ANC is only one flight away from Seatac, and she would love to stay with me for, say, two or three months in the dead of the Anchorage winter, if where I was was better than where she is! And of course, one flight for me to go there, too.

I'm limiting to western WA at the moment. I actually spent a couple of years on the other side - up at Holden Village, up lake Chelan, for a winter - wonderful of course, lots of hiking, *adored* the dogwoods in March-April - and then further east, just over the border into Idaho, up the Clearwater river valley, whence I ventured occasionally to Spokane, and cross-country through the eastern WA basalt desert, through the Cascades and so on. Chelan and Wenatchee are far dryer even than up in the higher elevations. I didn't care for the extreme heat of summer in the east, wonderful as it can be for wheat. As you said, *completely* different from the west. I think I have a decent general feel for the weather in the various parts of the state, at various times of the year.

But no, western WA for me. I've been active all my life, but joints wear out, and I can't do the snow shoveling so well anymore, and keep playing violin too. I've got a lot of gardening to cram into what years I have left, and if I must choose to relax and look at just the general environmental greenness, and other people's gardens - well, that'll suit me OK too. I just want to be outside with growing things, as much of the year as possible.

OMGoodness yall are making me want to move to your neck of the woods... not too cold and not too hot, sounds like heaven on earth....LOL

Hope yall don't mind me eavesdropping and learning about your area....

Love all the photos and the wonderful suggestions yall are sharing.

Janet

Welcome meadowyck! It is the greatest place (but don't tell anyone).

Well I just found this and I would like to welcome both of you Joanic, and Meadowyck!
I have lived in the Puget Sound 22years from 73-97 and anyplace is wonderful for growing. Your choices are Forest floor undercover, Under blackberry cover, Under neighbor cover, Sunny spots are few and far between and they are South or South west facing cleared areas. The peninsula (across Tacoma Narrows) is very wonderful and inland properties are reasonable for the Pacific NW. My family lives in Port Orchard and that is a good area. ONE MUST KNOW FACT IS GETTING AROUND IN ANY AREA OF WESTERN WASHINGTON IS DIFFICULT. So if you have to commute to work or anywhere you need to live close to it or you will be in your car most of your life. (Ask Katie59) Living in Minnesota is a dream getting around compared to Western WA. Enough said but consider that for your Daughter and I would rent a place for a while and travel to your home choices during day to see what you are getting into. Winter water tables rise and areas that are beautiful in summer can be swamps in winter. Ok, so I am the negative one, but I thought you would need to know. I love the Pacific NW and left the lake areas in Michigan to move to there and loved it and was overwhelmed with what grows there.
PS has anyone out there gone to "Google chrome" for a browser? The pictures are larger and soooo much better. A wonderful browser!

Sofer, thanks so much! I'll take my time on this move, I think, except that I'll probably get started on "lightening up". There's an awful lot of Stuff you can pack into a 40' x 80' steel storage building.

That bad on the transport, eh? Looking for high and dry with clear land to the S and SW. OK, on the list.

If you stay away from the urban areas and the roads tourists travel in the summer the traffic isn't so bad. Port Orchard is really nice and has a tiny ferry that goes over to Bremerton. Bremerton is just on the edge of growing again. They have in the last few years, cleaned up and created a new entrance into town from the south. The waterfront area has had a lot of work done and is amazing. Due to politicians in control, it did sort of die for a while. When I was a kid it was a super small town. The surrounding country is very nice. In fact, I'm trying to get my husband to move in there. My DD lives right in town. And we will soon need to be closer to doctors and the hospital. Houses in Bremerton are reasonable and there are some very nice areas. They also have a very good two- year college that is growing leaps an bounds. The bay between Bremerton and Port Orchard is very nice for sailing and has nice marinas. There is also a lot of public launching available.
Bremerton in future years will probably become an artists community and a bedroom community for Seattle.

That is where I would live if I moved back. I kept my sailboat in Port Orchard and loved the small town. Easy and pleasant access to Seattle by ferries. (2 of them) It is also a good soil area with glacial till down a few inches. Lots of nurseries on that side and land available with the houses. Good bike routes along the waterfront for green access to Seattle. Small sailboats are kind of dangerous in Puget Sound so if you move talk to me. I kayaked, sailed, and powerboated in the sound. Most beautiful part of Puget Sound is in the South sound.

Amen to all that. We would love to have you over here also.

Sofer, you aren't being negative. I told her the same thing.
I was thinking that if you liked Gig Harbor, you probably wouldn't like Bremerton. But that being said, it is definitely worth looking at because they are cleaning up the downtown and making it more liveable. It has an excellent new marina, too. I'm sure the prices there are much better than in Gig Harbor. The thing about Gig Harbor is that the town has an 'everyone who lives here is filthy rich' feel to it. That's not true, of course. Not everyone who lives in Gig Harbor is wealthy. But it has been very important to the town council that the 'look' of the place be kept to a certain standard. The town, as a whole, has a reputation for being snooty. But the up side to all of that is that it is really attractive. They have only recently been open to retail development, especially since the opening of the second Narrows Bridge, which has helped traffic quite a bit. Now they also have a brand new hospital, which was desperately needed on that side of the narrows. I'll never forget my sister being in labor and being stuck in traffic trying to get to the hospital in Tacoma. Those days are over, thank God. If I were moving up here now instead of 20 years ago, I would give Gig Harbor a look but my money would go further in Bremerton, and I think, too, that it will end up being an artsy town.

But I bet you are going to like Whidbey Island better.

But your questions were about public transportation and what thing we would change about where we live. In terms of public transport, don't count on it since it depends on where you live. There is a decent bus system that will take you from outlying areas into Seattle, and Seattle itself has a good bus system. They are working on having commuter trains from the outlying areas, but it's slow because it costs so much money and it's a bit of a political football.

We're sailors, too, and I agree completely with Soferdig. 13' is a little small for the Puget Sound area unless you stay in a very protected area.

In terms of what I would change in order to be perfectly happy with where I am, I would have to say sunshine. You and Soferdig live where winters are bitterly cold, but the sun shines. There is a very real effect of the lack of sunlight here and people feel it a lot. That's why I recommend you buy something that has no shade trees over the house or close to the house unless they are already on the north side and will not create more darkness in the winter. People joke about the rain and the lack of sun, but it's really no joke. When people move here from sunnier areas, they notice it the first year, maybe even the second year ,but after a few years they start getting really effected by it. There are plenty of things one can do about it, but one thing I wish I had done differently would be to buy a house in a bright, open space, not surrounded by tall trees. I love the trees, but I wish I could push them back about 100 yards or so, at least.
We probably will not retire here. The dampness seems to settle into my bones this time of year and cause me a bit of pain. I notice that when I go to drier, sunnier climates that pain does not exist. So we're looking at retiring perhaps in the Gulf Islands of British Columbia, if possible. They are in a rain shadow and have sunnier skies.

I think you are right on Melissa for the Gulf Islands and I think Saturna is the quietest and off the beaten path. Both Penders are next on my list but forget about big shopping areas. Gardens are beautiful there because no one leaves the Island. Well not we poor Veterinarians. Just the wealthy Psychs.
Corrections to your "bitterly cold". We have -20 for about 2 days every other year. Feburary is pleasant and I have seen many 60F days. Right now we are in the high 30's so there. LOL
Also there is no safe protected waters in Puget Sound. Hypothermia sets in in 5 to 15 minutes in the water.
My choice of eternity is on the west coast of Vancover Island. I will be on a big beach with thousands of my dog friends living with me. It won't be any mansion but rather a log pile covered with a tarp and an eternal flame near hot springs cove. Look for me there.

Oh, so true about the water here! I was talking waves and currents, not temps. One does NOT want to enter the waters of puget sound unless protected by a nice drysuit. On the other hand, people do kayak here all the time, right? so maybe it depends on her boat. One thing about Whidbey Island, I don't know anyplace off the western side of the island where a small boat would be appropriate. I don't think there are even any marinas or anchorages off that side of the island.
Yes, Saturna Island is lovely and is one of the ones we would like to consider. Please let me know where the wealthy Psychs live so I can find out how they did it. :)
We're planning a trip to west coast of Vancouver Island this summer. That's why I'm missing your roundup.

Pix I have a question - if you move to British Columbia will you be covered by Canadian healthcare? Will you become a Canadian citizen? I have had thoughts of moving there as well.

I think that you have to produce in a occupation in Canada to become a citizen. I know I could become a Canadian and have considered it if our country continues in its need to control the world. I have had many requests to work in Calgary and Edmonton. Their economy is strong and have a need for professionals. Right now I LOVE SE ALASKA! I am in Petersburg now and it will be a great 2+ weeks. I get to sail my sailboat next week and I will wear a dry suit. When I paddled my kayak in Puget Sound I always wore a wet suit. Up here there is no house to knock on the door and get warm. You don't have long to get warmed up before you shut down.
I remember lots of sailing on the eastern part of Whidbey and during the summer the water lit up at night as my tiller cut through the water. Loved to go up to Oak Harbor to race sailboats. Many memories.

I figured we'd have to go to the US for our healthcare for the most part. Fortunately, the US is right there. Since we're nowhere near being ready to retire, we haven't looked at the fine print yet.

So here is what drives me crazy about me. Today I spent a number of hours raking up debris under the fir trees, putting it through the chipper shredder, spreading the mulch. Like all afternoon. Now we're in for gusts of wind up to 50 mph tonight. So I'll be doing it all over again. I should learn to check the forecast before I work so hard.

This message was edited Jan 18, 2010 12:56 AM

Hi folks,

Re sailing - on Whidbey, on the south end, there is a little community called Skatchett Head that has a teeny marina/community center with a nice little concrete ramp. I'm a pretty cautious sailor, wouldn't just go dumping the little craft in without consulting locals, and have never tipped her; have figured out the balance of forces over several years. Which isn't to say I don't acknowledge coastal sailing to be an altogether different beast. I don't know where I'll end up, if I'm on Whidbey, because this move is at least a year away, and who knows what will be available when I'm ready. Maybe Langley area, on the north/east side. Just hoping that I can easily trail my boat to wherever I have to go to launch, without having to fight urban traffic. This traffic idea is what puts me off about, for instance, the idea of sailing on Lake Washington, or Green Lake. Rigging the boat takes a little while, and I'm not sure there would be anywhere I could stop and do it, and be out of the way.

Maybe I ought to be looking to crew.

Here's one of my girls at the helm.

And here is another. This is a gunter-rigged dinghy, made on the Norfolk coast in England, which we had shipped over here. All the spars are spruce, lots of wood (which I *do* take care of). Wish I could find a picture of her sailing, taken from a distance, but I'm always in the boat!