2009 was my first year saving seeds and mostly growing open pollinated varieties. Last Feb or March my calabrese broccoli bolted and I saved seeds. It took forever for the seeds to actually dry on the plants and I was in a hurry to plant other things in their place.
Now I have Pak Choi blooming and if it doesn't freeze to ruination, I'd like to save seeds. Later there will be more things like cabbage, kohlrabi and lettuce. I'm wondering if there are any tell tale signs to let me know when I can safely take the plants up and dry the seeds in the garage other than waiting for the whole thing to turn brown.
SEED SAVING?
Last season I grew a few plants Pak Choi which went to seed because noone was interested in trying it. When these plants bolted their were lots of long skinny seed pods so I left them in the raised bed until they looked dry enough to pull. I tossed the plants in a cardboard flat and left them to further dry in the shed. Last month I shelled them while watching a football game on Sat. Looked like about a thousand little black seeds in the bottle. Now all I need to do is figure out how to convince everyone to try them if I plant some next season. The only thing I remember reading about serving them is they are a good substitue for celery and more nutrious. This is method is basically what I do with dried beans, chives, and peas. Just leave them to dry on the vine as much as possible, toss them into a cardboard flat, and leave them in the shed to dry until I can get to them. There are probably more refined methods of saving these types of seed, however this works for me. About the only way I can sit through an entire football game is to have something to keep me occupied.
I have a request for you twiggybuds, tell us about your method of pepper seed saving. I have heard that the pods must be fully ripened and then dried before removing the seeds. Is that entirely necessary? I took some habanero and jalapeno seeds from pods which had not completely ripened and still moist. I'm wondering if they will germinate. Forgot to wear surgical gloves too...won't make that mistake again.
This message was edited Jan 6, 2010 5:46 AM
Mraider, pac choi is great in soup, we use both pac and bok choi in vegetable soup and chicken soup. We cook leaves and stems. Another way to serve it is to saute onion, garlic and hot pepper flakes in olive oil until the onions are clear, add the pac choi and saute a few minutes (don't let it get mushy). Serve with a little vinegar, it is yummy.
For my pac and bok choi seeds I let most of the seed pods fill out, but they're still green. I pull up the plant, turn it upside down in a 5 gallon bucket and leave till it is very dry. Then I bang the whole plant against the side of the bucket to make the seeds fall out.
Excellent Calla. Just the info I was hoping for. That will let me get the old plants out at least a month earlier.
Mraider pepper seeds are very easy. All you have to do is split a pepper and spread the seeds on something to dry for 4 or 5 days. I use coffee filters and stir them around several times. If the pepper has started to blush with its final color, the seeds are ready. Sometimes the seeds become dark/discolored if you wait for total coloring but I don't think it affects viability.
Twiggy, I found out it worked that way by being impatient! I needed the space they were taking up. I have bok choi (a really delicious one) that is going to seed. I'm letting the plants stay until the michihli plants next to them are harvested, then something else needs to go in the bed. The little pods are filled out nicely and a couple have a yellow tinge which is a good sign too.
Did you know bok choi and pac choi flower buds and flowers are delicious in a salad?
Excellent info!
But those little flowers are too cute to eat - lol...
Calalily, all of what you mentioned sounds really good to me. It surprised me how easy it was to grow Pok Choi in a raised bed. Never knew of anyone around here raising it, and as I mentioned no one was interested in trying it, which is why it all went to seed. Any suggestions on saving it, or do you recommed growing only what would be required for immediate use?
twiggybuds...I recall tossing either some tomato or pepper seeds which had turned brown, thinking they were no longer viable. Wonder why the change in color, and what the effect is of this color change. I had wrapped these saved seeds in tin foil. Some of the other packets had molded. I got the idea for saving seeds in tin foil from Burpee seed packets which were sealed in a foil pack. Just another bad idea.
mraider - I would think you could blanch/freeze the pak choi/bok choy just like any other green. Personally I have not dome it because we seem to eat it up faster than I can grow it - lol. If you google "Martha Stewart Bok Choy and Broccoli" you will find an outstanding recipe you might be able to pass off on your family! It is very very good and you can play around and add stuff to it if you want. I've made it with adding all kinds of stuff. Served over a nice brown or wild rice - mmm mmm good. I've also made her pork eggrolls to go with it - a little work but very yummy...
Your seeds that molded were most likely not completely dry. Seeds dry here really fast since we have low humidity, but somewhere more humid I would give them at least a couple weeks to be sure they are completely dry...
Kelly
I keep hearing the stems and flowers are good but haven't tried them yet. Farmer Dill says this extreme cold spell is likely to cause a lot of my stuff to bolt prematurely so maybe that will be all I'll get.
Pak choi is wonderful stuff that I only discovered this season. The mild taste, crunchy stems and fast production all suit me and I'll grow it every year. I have two kinds and I love both. One is the "quilted" leaf kind with dark green leaves and the other is smooth leaved and lighter colored. They both are used the same but the smooth leaved one is very much easier to wash and search for caterpillars so I'm leaning toward that one in the future.
I learned to ferment tomato seeds this last year and they turned out identical to the store bought ones.
Kelly, TUVM for the egg roll idea. Wife and I took a cooking class from a Chinese engineer we both worked with. We pretty well mastered the art of cooking egg rolls and crab ragoo (sp?) because of the family demands for these at our get-togethers. Bok Choi as a substitute for the sometimes bitter, store bought, bean sprouts sounds like an excelent idea. I am putting together a list of these recipes in my Garden/Vegetable/Pak Choi document files What is it that robut says. "More Imput!" I can not believe we let this stuff go to seed without trying it out.
A single 4' x 8' raised bed of leaf lettuce and spinach is way more than the two of can consume. We have to beg neighbors and family to come and cut fresh lettuce, or take it to them...washed and baged of course. What gets me is unless you can do what we call 'added value', which is to process our harvest in an easy to use form like: Shelled, frozen sweet corn, peas, beans, ets.; canned tomato juice, tomato sauces, picante sauce; canned pickels; frozen hasbrowns; and yes egg rolls, we have a difficult time getting our friends and family to eat the foods we process. Please excuse me from digressing from the seed saving purpose of this thread. I know the frustration of people who sabatage threads with their useless garble.
Mraider3,
Just try NOT offering your friends and family those "value added, processed" veggies one season, and I bet you'll realize just how much extra work they've been able to get YOU to do on their behalf!
Hey Linda, NO CAN DO! We barter a lot, and aside from fish, we get various meats like deer, elk, pheasant, etc. from several family memebers in exchange for our efforts. But you know how it is...we must treat everyone the same. No playing favorites. Well not so it's noticeable anyway. Thanks to your fresh pick sweet corn in microwave idea, we actually have had several neighbors and family memebers come and pick their own fresh corn for a change. I bragbed about how good this was just pealing away the shucks and eating it without any additives. TYVM
MRaider3,
That truly warms my heart, hearing that ya'll are actually nuking fresh corn in the husks! Have an ear on me, ok?
To save pepper seeds, don't you have to isolate a given variety if you want it to come back true? Is there any way to do that other than only growing one kind, or how far apart do they need to be?
Mraider, thank you for reminding me why I start so many plants for our friends and relatives; I think we get back more than we ever give, from at least 99% of them!
Sandy
I share plants too and the recipients really appreciate them. I get it back in different plants, produce or some little thing they think I'd like. It's a good thing.
Weedwacker I bought some of those little bags from the bridal department to isolate my peppers. It is the only foolproof way to go. I haven't used them because I'm real short on bees and such in recent years. Hopefully they'll build back up and I'll use my bags. The flowers are self pollinating and I save seeds from the first fruits that set because they're usually the best shielded from wind by heavy foliage cover and often start blooming in the greenhouse. People actually have few problems with crossing from what I've read.
Thanks Twiggybuds - I've been avoiding saving pepper seeds because I thought they were too likely to cross; and you're right, often there are little peppers before the plants ever go out in the garden, never thought of that. Something new to try!
Sandy
Last year was my first year for growing Pak Choi (Bok Choy),
It grew really well here and I, too wondered how I would use all of it.
Well, I found a great salad recipe and by the end of the summer, I had to wait for the Pak Choi to get big enough for us to have at least one more salad! LOL No leftovers. ;)
Try it out. It's great for potlucks, company, etc. You can add things to it, like dried cranberries.
Pak Choy Salad (Bok Choy)
1/4 cup margarine
1/4 cup sesame seeds
2 (3 ounce) packages chicken ramen noodle pasta
Melt the margarine over medium heat in a small skillet. Add seasoning packet from one of the ramen noodles.
Crush the ramen noodles while still in their packaging as small as you can,
and add to the margarine along with the sesame seeds.
Saute until everything is golden brown.
Remove from heat and drain on a paper towel.
1 medium head bok choy
3 green onions
Dressing:
1/4 cup red wine vinegar
1/4 cup olive oil
1/4 cup white sugar or your favorite sweetener
1 tablespoon soy sauce
In a small bowl, whisk together the vinegar, oil, sugar and soy sauce.
Chop the bok choy and green onions and add to a large bowl. Just before serving,
sprinkle with dressing, and toss to coat.
Serve topping on the side with salad. (Keeps it crunchy)
This is a flexible recipe and you can adjust the dressing to fit the amount of Pak Choi. We love it.
Well that's it...I'm not going to brag about my Pok Choi next season. Everyone one else can just figure it out for themselves. I'm headed to the whole food store tomorrow for my first Pak Choi fix!
Back to pepper seed saving. With the straw bail method surrounding over 100 pepper plants I will need to take the precautions you described in saving seeds from the various heirlooms. I'm not sure what a bridal shower bag is, but I have read in the tomato forum a comment on saving tomato seeds which used a light duty zip lock sandwich bag. Also, I remember reading a comment about choosing the earliest bloom from the selected plant to cover. Could this apply to pepper seed saving? The hydro tomato operation across the road uses a 'tickler' to polinate their hoop house tomato blossoms. Would something like a small paint brush work to polinate pepper blossoms?
Well, there's another thing I'll have to add to my seed orders! I keep hearing about this Chinese vegetable and it's about time I tried it.
I think the bags she's talking about are the little mesh fabric bags that people use to put wedding favors (little candies and such) in. Sounds more breathable to me than plastic bags. And prettier! Alternatively, you could buy some tulle or organza from the fabric store, cut it into squares or circles, and tie them off.
As I understand it, pepper flowers "pollinate themselves," so hand pollination would be necessary only when you're trying to cross them. The bags are necessary to prevent insects from cross pollinating them.
Excuse Me Here...I should have been paying more attention to the earlier comments here where some of this was already explained. I diverged from the main topic of conversation and again I appologise Dorthy. It's easy for me to get side tracked with all the information which comes out of a thread such as this one. I keep thinking back to comments in other threads like potting peppers and treating them like perenials, etc. I call this the 'Bucky' syndrome!
I've read that the peppers and tomatoes need some breeze to distribute pollen from the ovary to the whatever to set fruit. You can thump or brush the branches if you have them in the greenhouse. Outside they normally don't really need the help.
I planted some Pak Choi seeds Friday night along with some other stuff and put it in my new domed tray with the heat mat. The soil was room temp and the tray was already warmed up. Last night I went to add some cauliflower seeds and saw 2 little sprouts. This morning the whole bunch was up. That's 36 hours. I still can't believe it. I've never seen anything come up so fast. I've grown 2 batches starting last September. They take the heat and frost and cold down to the mid 20s doesn't hurt them. I'll set them out when they get big enough to handle. I don't know how they'll do with lengthening days but so far it's a miracle crop for me.
Edited to say the pak choi is still green and those that bolted still have their yellow flowers looking good. This is after a week of very cold temps. It doesn't look any worse than the kohlrabi and broccoli plants so it probably isn't any more tender.
Here's another miracle....Chinese Cabbage has put up 4 sprouts. It was planted Fri. night same as the Pak Choi. My last average frost is March 11 so this is an experiment that might not pay. It's a tropical type named April Wonder.
This message was edited Jan 10, 2010 3:46 PM
twiggybuds...I'm confused here...are you planning on transplanting the Pak Choi, or just leaving it in the tray in your greenhouse?
As for crowding a douple row of pepper plants btw straw bales I have a couple of concerns: (1) Aphids or possibly some disease being easily transmitted with close plantings; (2) cross pollination is probably enevidable. With our winds pollination should not be a problem, and if I understand what you have been saying, cross pollination does not affect the fruit, only the genetics of the seed. Is that right?
I purchased a dozen of the high domed covers for primarily hot pepper seedlings last year. I transplant individual seedlings to 4" peat pots when they are large enough, and kept them covered at night with the heat mat on. The room I use for starting seedlings is typically in the 50's at night and without the heat mat and high dome covers, pepper plant growth is vertually non-existant. Aphids are a continual problem with the indoor pepper seedlings. All the soap concoctions I've tried were useless. I plan on trying rotenone/peritrin spray this season and see how that works.
I transplant the pak choi just like cabbage. Last fall I had good luck transplanting them and the cauliflower and broccoli when they had 1 or 2 sets of true leaves. I started them in a 4" pot. It looks like about 15 came up and I'll have to give them their own little pot. I think I'll not plant them out until mid-February when most of the real cold should have passed. They are rated at 45 days to maturity and given enough food, water and light I think they could be grown in a 4" pot. Several people have told me they put 4 plants in a square foot of space. I've grown them 5 to a 14" pot.
Farmer Dill and the vendor both say that if brassica's growth is interrupted by a real cold spell it makes them bolt prematurely. This will be my first time trying to grow brassicas in the spring because usually they carry over from late fall plantings. I'm hoping to make one more crop and then follow immediately with summer vegs. This crazy weather has me spooked and I'm planting tomatoes two weeks later than last year.
Last year the aphids were horrendous on my peppers very early and I doused them twice a day with soap and neem. It never did get rid of them all. When it warmed up they just went away on their own. I didn't see any advantage to rushing to plant them because they didn't grow until it got nice and warm. The younger peppers caught up with the older ones and produced at the same time with a lot less problems. I'm thinking I'll start them up to a month later this year. I found that many tomatoes will set when the nights are in the 40's but can't take frost in the fall. Peppers won't set until it's warm and will take several frosts in the fall.
The experts say that cross pollination can only affect the seeds produced from a crossed fruit. Some gardeners vow that growing sweet peppers next to hots makes their sweets turn warm. Lots of people have reported getting a lot of heat variation from a single plant at the same time from different fruits. Last year somebody accused my jalapenos of being killer hot. A few weeks later somebody else said they were like sweet bells.
Most people I've traded with don't bag blooms. It is good practice to save seeds from several fruits to minimize the odds. I only grow a couple plants of each variety and hope for the best.
Hey Twiggy, when are you planing to place your maters and peppers out? I just started the maters from seed today, hope it is not too soon, and started the peppers about 4 days ago since they take a lot longer to germinate, I planted almost all the determinate maters you gave me and some idet that I had from a really nice trade.
You are right about the pack choi mine is going to flower as well, and also the spinach mustard, it hardly got big enough and went right to flower, since my seedlings are still too small for transplant, I decided to leave everything as it is and see if maybe they'll go to seed by the time I have to transplant other things. I just had some Pack choi today for lunch it was yummy! Thank you Twiggy.
Hey Carmin. All my Pak Choi is going to seed and my new ones are too tiny to transplant too. I've gotten to love that stuff and will push mine. They'll be about ready to eat when it's time to plant out the maters. My Gypsy broccoli that I harvested the big heads from back in early December aren't making any significant side shoots so they're coming out as soon as the rain stops. The ones that had started little main heads before the freeze are growing slowly so I may get something from those. The Calabrese is small but growing so maybe. The cauliflower is history. The kohlrabi, rutabagas and radishes are good as ever. The Little Gem and garlic chives I got from you are up nicely, thank you.
The freeze kind of took the wind out of my sails but the warmer weather is getting me motivated again. My early type tomatoes are starting to stick their heads up now. I just took them off the heat mat and will fill it up again tonight with some main season varieties. Last year I put a few early ones out the first week in March, had a big frost scare and carried them in and out of the greenhouse several times. I'm only going to do that with 3 or 4 plants this time and will delay the rest until the 10th or 15th. I'm completely spooked over the weather. Anything you plant out during March will have plenty of time to produce before it gets too hot in July. If anything gets too leggy just bury them up to the leaves.
The aphids are a huge problem on peppers put out while it's still real cool. They can go out as early as the toms but you'll need a spray bottle with soapy water twice a day until it warms up and then they'll just disappear. I even tried Sevin and neem on them and I think they enjoyed it. The soap smothers them but somehow a few always survive.
I'm having an awful time trying to choose which tomatoes to start. I've got some faves and now many new ones. I really want them all.
I know Twiggy I had the same problem with choosing tomatoes as well, I had some very old seed from 2005 that Suze gave me and also a lady called Melissa, unfortunately out of 8 varieties only 4 were viable so I planted the ones that sprouted and planted some newer seed I got from a really nice guy in Tomatoville, he sent me tons of really cool varieties and had a hard time chosing which ones to plant, but finnaly decided on some. Do you plant a fall tomato crop as well, and do they do any good in this climate?
Yes my broccoli is growing as well but very slowly, and the plants even though they have small heads on them are small plants not as big as I thought they would be. My kolrabi is growing is about the size of a smallish tennis ball, the biggest one so I am waiting for it to grow a little more before harvesting, my lettuce is practically all gone I do have some mesclum mix that I got from rare seeds but it is still a bit too small, I planted some more lettuces but they are still a little too small to transplant, I still have to be better at this continuous harvest stuff and plant things in intervals instead of all at the same time. What I am puzzled about is my beets they are taking forever to grow and only one seems to be big enough to eat, I wonder if this is weather realated or if the soil is just laking something, but they are still there so I'll just see what happens, hopefully they will mature before the summer crops have to go in.
Thank you for the tips about peppers I will have to try that soapy water thing and hope for the best.
Hey, Ladies!
Great to read your updates. It helps me to visualize the growing schedule.
My 14 cabbages are just starting to make heads.
My 1 broccoli head is about 4" diameter, and I can see side shoots coming out, too. But, our weather has turned warm, so I'm expecting the broccoli to bolt any day now. I'll probably pic the main head this weekend.
My hitch-hiker kohlrabi bulbs are about 3" diameter. Since I didn't know I was growing them in the first place, I certainly don't know what to do with them at this point. I did get some recipes over in the tomatoes forum, so I'll be trying kohlrabi for the first time!
I cut the potato seeds outta the bags last night and put them on paper plates in a corner. I'd truly like to plant them this weekend, but my finger is dictating my schedule right now. Total Bummer, cause there's so much I wanna do outside this weekend.
I still have one entire raised bed that doesnt have a thing growing on. Any suggestions about what I should put in there for the spring garden, and when? Please LMK.
Thanks!
P.S. My wando peas, the Emerald Giant and King of the North Bell Peppers, and the Broadleaf mustards are all up!
Winter Sowing works!
Been getting home after dark and haven't peeked in the tomato jugs at all. Shoot!
I have tried so many broccoli varieties this season. Two that came thru the freeze we had, are heading up nice (with BIG heads) are Green Goliath and Belstar. Belstar seems to be the best, some of the heads are 8 inches across and it has really nice side shoots. Both of these do much better in the cold than when it was warm.
I love Southern Comet, but it didn't take the cold very well. It does great when the temps are warmer.
Cassius and Cheddar cauliflower came thru the cold without "buttoning" but I see Snowball is not doing so well. With my small cauliflower plants, a larger percentage of Cassius survived than did Minuteman.