you start. ;o)
Al
Let's have a soil discussion .......
Al,
I'll continue the conversation we started on the bonsai mix over here. I got the chicken grit and I'm worried it is a bit too large. It is also whiter than I expected, which bothers me for aesthetic reasons. What do you think?
I have found a place to get micro-nutrients that seems like what you have described elsewhere. My question is whether to mix that into the soil before planting, or do it as a top dressing periodically?
I'd say that size is entirely appropriate for a bonsai soil. I have the same feeling as you about the aesthetics, but I always try to put the plant first. If I have trees going to a show, I just scrape some of the topsoil off and dress with black sand or something else. I'm fortunate enough to have access to cherrystone, which is a rusty-red quartzite, and I've been using that for several years as an equal to the crushed granite.
Are you using Micromax? Are you getting it from Julian (Adams Bonsai)?
How you use a micronutrient supplement depends on what the product is. It you have Micromax, which is insoluble, it's best incorporated into the soil when you make it. You usually need to replenish it in the second (and subsequent) year(s) if you don't repot. If you're using a soluble product, like STEM or Microblast, it would be added to the fertilizer solution in low doses at regular intervals. I usually supply STEM at 1/4 tsp/gallon each time I fertilize.
Al
I'm getting together the ingredients for the soil mix and looking through my notes from past postings and I'm a little confused. I had written down (I think from the Containers forum) that the mix should be 3 gallons pine bark, 1/2 gallon peat, 1/2 gallon perlite, small handful lime, 1/4 cup controlled release fertilizer, 1 T micro nutrient powder. But since them I'm pretty sure I've read that I shouldn't put any peat in, and should use turface or equivalent instead. So my more recent thinking is I"m supposed to do pine bark, turface, crushed granite, no controlled release fertilizer, but yes to micro nutrient powder (Micromax). Not sure about the lime, and not sure of quantities on granite and turface (assume 3 gallons pine bark). I'd be grateful if you'd list the quantities here. Thank you so much.
The 5:1:1 mix of bark:peat:perlite is what I grow veggies and short term floral displays in. For all my houseplants and woody material - all my bonsai, I start out with a mix of:
1 part 1/8-1/4 screened white fir or screened pine bark
1 part screened Turface
1 part crushed granite in grower size
gypsum @ 2 teaspoons per gallon of soil or 1/3 cup per cu ft
I use Micromax micro-nutrient granules, but you can get by just fine if you use an appropriate fertilizer that contains all the essential elements.
I then modify the mix slightly as I pot/repot to suit whatever plant material I'm working with.
This soil is very effective because the avg particle size is just under 1/8". It just happens that as soil particle size increases, the PWT decreases, until it disappears entirely at a particle size just under 1/8". This allows you to maximize water retention without any perched water. Also, because the Turface has excellent water retention because of its tremendous surface area and internal porosity, while the crushed granite holds little water, the soil is readily adjustable by +/- the granite and Turface while keeping the bark component at no more than 1/3 of the mix. The Turface is also very good at holding nutrients.
Al
I usually sweeten soil with wood ashes since we have a fireplace. Do you know whether I could use that instead, or is it best to buy some gypsum? If the latter, do I go to a feed store or a garden store? Thank you.
Wynne
Wood ashes are alkaline, true, but they are also high in soluble salts and tend to clog soil pores. Gypsum is seasonal at most big box stores. It's only a few bucks for a 50 lb bag ($6?), or you can buy it where Espoma products are sold @ around $5/10 lbs.
If you go the gypsum route, and you want help with a fertilizer regimen, let me know what your fertilizer choice is and I'll help you. I would steer you in the direction of 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers like MG or Peter's 24-8-16, MG 12-4-8, or Dyna-Gro's Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 (preferred).
Al
I have used Wegener's Liquid 8-6-6 fertilizer for years on my houseplants and when I started bonsai last year, put it on those too. Have you used/heard of it? Ingredients listed are:
Nitrogen 8% (2% ammoniacal, 1% nitrate, 5% water insoluble)
phosphate 6%
potash 6%
calcium 1.3%
sulphur 2.7%
cobalt .001%
molybdenum .0119%
sodium .3%
Derived from fish, sugar beet extract, molybdate sulphate, cobalt sulfate
I haven't heard of it, Granite. Please do note that it is absent Mg, a very important element (not that they aren't ALL very important). ;o) You should include MgSO4 (Epsom salts) in your fertilizer regimen if you use it. It also lacks Fe, Mn, and Cu, and is rather high in Na, so I think you could do much better by choosing one of the soluble fertilizers I mentioned, but of course, it's your decision.
Al
I see your point, and looked up the Dyna Go on websites. Certainly looks good, but shipping costs as much as the fertilizer. I'll see if I can find any locally first, although I'm not optimistic. Meanwhile, I finally have assembled all the ingredients for the soil mix and will be combining them shortly. Had to pay too much for the pine bark, but bought a small amount and will keep looking for something more economical when spring comes. Just to make sure, I'm combining the pine bark, granite, and turface substitute by volume, not weight, correct?
Yes, by volume. For the Foliage-Pro, try any hydroponics shops or other business entities that cater to hydroponics growers.
Good luck!
Al
This message was edited Feb 8, 2010 3:29 PM
I currently use Dyna-Gro 7-9-5, which is readily available. Looking at its label, it is dawning on me that this is pretty much what you want, except for the high Phosphate--it has the trace minerals. My regimen has been to use this and the Wegeners on alternate waterings. I always attributed my success with houseplants to the Wegeners--the mystique of organic, I guess. But since I used Dyna Gro half the time, why was I giving Wegeners all the credit? Funny, now that I think of it...
FWIW - I think Dyna-Gro's Foliage-Pro 9-3-6, though not as easy to find, supplies nutrients in very close to the same ratio as plants use and would be a superior choice, keeping TDS and EC at the lowest levels that ensure no deficiencies (a GOOD thing).
Here is some more reading on fertilizers that will help to explain w/o me going into deep detail here on a thread about soils. http://www.supergardeners.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7 I have the same thread posted here @ Dave's, but I don't remember where it is (what forum) and the search function is down.
Al
I made my first batch of "soil" using Al's formula. It took about an hour to mix up a 2 gallon batch. The main time-consumer was the sifting, which was harder than I expected. I had taped window screening into a kitty-litter-sized pan and I'd pour some material in and shake it. Had to wear a dust mask! I'm wondering if there is a smarter approach to this sifting process?
But the soil turned out looking very nice. I had been unhappy about the stone being so white, but the turface-substitute is nearly white too, so what the heck. On my bonsai pots, I can pour some top dressing of the Hoffman's (which is dark) to hide it.
I have five Japanese maples I want to repot in this stuff, so I have a lot more soil to mix up and hopefully will be able to learn a better approach here.
I repotted my juniperis chinensis sargentii on Friday, using the mix I made with Al's help. This is a weird time of year to be repotting, admittedly, but this bonsai lives in my sunroom, where winter temperatures never go below 50, and daytime temperatures depend on sunlight. Now that the winter solstice is well past, plants are coming out of dormancy as daytime temperatures are reaching near 70 and length of day isn't so dismal. Anyway, I've been worried about the repotting I did of this plant last fall, as I didn't have the new mix then, and I was new to bonsai and didn't have the courage to do the degree of root raking and untangling that is needed. Even since last fall, it has been sitting very high in its pot because the root mass was still too big. So I repotted and combed more old soil out and settled it deeper in the pot with the new mix. I hope I made the right decision for timing this. I'll post how things go with this plant.
"I'm wondering if there is a smarter approach to this sifting process?"
I screen mine outdoors with the wind at my back. The fines fall into a tub or wheel barrow and the very fine dust blows away.
Shimpakus need a cold rest (several weeks at temps 32 - 42*) to grow well, Granite, but keep us posted.
Al
Tapla, I'm confused. Granite said he was combining the ingredients by volume and Tapla answered "yes, by weight". I've been doing it by volume. Now I'm really confused.
Berengaria
Ooops! I'm so sorry! I must have been in lala land. I edited it to say by 'volume'. Thank you for catching that, B. I hope that eases the confusion.
Al
Interesting, I had interpreted Al's error to mean I should use weight and that was how I did it. Glad you asked, Berengaria. That means, I imagine, that there is more pine bark than in his normal mix. Next batch I'll use volume.
So sorry. I've answered that question at least a hundred times, too.
Al