When its good its good but when its bad its REAL bad.

I think I have lost over hafe of my beautiful plants. I could cry from a broken heart. As usual the weather man was WRONG! It hit around 12 here last night and it NEVER hits that low in SC. The heating was on and didnt keep up with the fast dropping temperate. I know some people are use to these temps but I am NOT. It even froze down into flordia last night. My plants are fried. I had such a beautiful collection of so many gifts I had been given. I really want to cry thinking of it. Change that I am crying. Just saying it hurts. My hobby was just crushed. Imagine a 16x16 GH practically toast. I lost more than I can salvage and I dont know where to start. Brandy

Please don't give up yet! Do you know how cold it actually got in the greenhouse? Assuming the GH stayed warmer than the 12 degree outside temperatures, I suspect many of your plants aren't really dead. A night with temps below freezing will damage a lot of leaves and make the plants look awful, but except for really super tropical things it probably didn't kill the plant itself so many of them should come back for you in the spring. But if this cold snap is supposed to last, I would go out there and throw blankets over everything to help protect them from further damage--many things can survive a night like that, but the more times those cold temperatures repeat themselves the more things you're likely to lose.

Best thing to do (other than protecting them a bit more if you have more super cold weather) is leave them alone--don't be surprised if some of them continue to look worse & worse over the next week or two as the frost-damaged leaves die off, but don't throw anything out until the weather warms up in the spring and you can see what's starting to put out new growth. Once you see the new growth, then trim off any dead parts. If you suspect there may be some more cold weather coming, don't trim off any dead looking parts now since they can help protect what's left of the plant in the next cold spell.

I was gonna ask if I should trim off the dead so thanks for adding that. The foliage is pretty bad. I brought one plant in and it immediatly began to laydown. My hubby had just suprised me with a Beautiful large Adenium yesterday. I was so hapy and today it is cooked.I guess I just needed a cry. My hubby and kids said they are just plants I shouldnt be so upset. As mad as it made me at that moment I need to pick my chin up and realize the truth in it. I did it once an I can eventually get there again.(I hope). I am gona try to track down a Kerosene heater today. I dont know if I can afford to keep it heated. Just hubby works. This entire week is supposed to be like this. I checked on things around 10 last night and it was 40 degrees then. I try to keep it just above freezing to be more cost effective. I guess it cost me.

I know the feeling, so much for global warming, it's -4 with the wind chill here and the house heater has run all night long and still only kept it at 60 degrees. Gonna be a big heating bill this month. My cold frame is frozen solid even with the snow on it. Guess I'll have to wait a while before I look into it. I guess I was lucky I didn't get the greenhouse built this year, I brought all the plant indoors. As much as the wife doesn't appreciate all the plants taking up every available space in the house even she says it was a good thing we didn't leave anything outside this year. I usually stack everything in the screenhouse but something told me not to this year.

Brandy-I think you are in zone 8a. If thats so, then I think you should expect more weather like this in the years to come. It doesn't happen every winter, but you should always expect at least a few nights to go down to at least 17 degrees or so. 16x16 is a fairly large grhouse, and I wonder what size heater you have in it, and whether it was big enough? If it was big enough, the heater should have been able to keep up with the drop, because as the sun goes down, the heater starts to run, and should keep running all night if need be to keep up with the thermostat. While we didnt get to 12 degrees (we were around 20 this am at 6 am, but the wind was blowing), the heat stayed right at 58 degrees. What temp did you have the thermostat set at? I am really surprised that your heater didn't keep it to at least above freezing.

ecrane is right, I bet that you hardly lost any plants. I would watch for the frozen foliage that might start rotting, and remove that right away as it rots. Definitely get another heat source in there for tonight and cover everything with blankets. I would even stack whatever plants you can on top of each other and cover that with double layers of blankets for extra warmth.
I know the feeling-last winter I had a heater go out when it was 11 degrees out, and all I had in there were cuttings-which are super tender, and believe it or not-quite a few of them survived. There were icicles in the grhouse that am when I came in! We had to move all of them into another grhouse until I got the heater fixed. It was a bummer-I empathize with you for sure

Hi Brandy...last winter we had 3 back to back HARD freezes here in the Florida panhandle. My heaters didn't keep up (also many holes in the GH cover). Stuff looked awful. When I was able to determine the extent of the damage I did a lot of cutting back. For the most part things recovered. I was sick over a plummie that I just KNEW was dead...cut it to about an inch above the dirt line. It is now bigger and fuller then ever..at least I hope so...have not ventured out to the GH yet today. Good luck and give your babies time to recover.

In addition to the heater, electric or otherwise, cover the GH roof with some bed comforters / bedspreads at night. Do this in early evening before the sun goes down as the GH starts loosing heat. It will make a huge difference for your heatloss during the night. Most of your heat loss is literally thru the roof. Be sure to remove them (blankets) during the day so you get the daytime heating.

Last March we had a cold snap for over a week. Temps went down to -30ºC, which is -22ºF. I have a propane heater with 2 settings, 4000 BTU and 9000 BTU and kept it on the high setting. I also had a little electric heater with a fan which was about 3000 BTU. The fan helped also with the combustion heater. The inside walls of the GH had a blanket of ice. I had a ton of seedlings that included petunias and tomatoes. I lined the inside of the GH with bubblewrap and put blankets on the roof. I was able to keep the night temp at +15ºC or +59ºF with outside night temps of -30ºC or -22ºF, without the blankets on the roof, the temp was about +8ºC or +46ºF. The GH is 12' x 8'

I don't start up the GH until March1st (not enough daylight hours until then). The sun light is very powerful, even this time of year. I have a remote thermometer in there and today it is +6ºC or +43ºF inside the GH. The outside temp is currently -12ºC or +10ºF. That is heat from the sun only. There is no heater on and no extra insulation. Sunset is around 4:40 PM and the angle of the sun this time of year is very low, so around 2 PM the temp starts dropping in the GH. It doesn't take long for the GH to drop in temp as the sun goes down. The GH doesn't hold the heat long with below freezing temps. Within an hour after sunset, the GH is about 1ºC which is about 1.8ºF warmer than outside temp. Without a heat source inside it would be impossible to keep an ok temp inside the GH during the night. So if you have below freezing temps, do put a heater on and cover the roof.

Hope you have some survivors. I would leave the damaged plants for a few days and see it there is sign of new growth. You will be able to tell how much to prune out then.

This message was edited Jan 3, 2010 1:31 PM

It is going to be a cold week. Our forcast for Thursday and Friday is high less than 10F and lows 0 to -5F. Today is a good day for double checking everything, backups, etc.

We havent ever had temps like this that I can remember. Like a dummy I put all my plants in there including my favorites. I should have brought my favorites in. Well today I have to go out and try to figure out what I love most that is still hafe alive and bring it inside. I tryed adding a Kerosene heater last night and it ran out early this morning. It hadnt been out long but had already hit 30. I dont know that I can afford to heat it this year. I use a small bottle of propane in 2 days and then I tried the kerosene and it didnt even last the whole night. Every noght this week is supposed to be that low. It was 18 at 9:00 this morning so I know we were down to @ least 14 again. All week is gonna be like this. If I can round up some blanets for the top I may give that a go.

Do you have your entire greenhouse full? Another thing you could consider is pushing all the plants to one end and then use some plastic or something to create a partition. That way you can put the heaters just in the section with the plants--even if the barrier lets some heat through to the other side it'll still help keep it warmer in that one area with the plants. Sort of like creating a greenhouse within the greenhouse. Of course if the whole GH is jam-packed then that won't work, but since you just got it this year I figured maybe it's not totally full yet.

J4J,
What kind of GH do you have and how many watts or BTU of heat do you have available?

Could you hook up a 20 lbs tank of propane to your heater instead of the little bottles that only last for 6 hours? I have a 30 lbs propane tank outside my GH and run an extension propane hose into the GH. The hose connects to the heater the same as the little bottles. The bigger tank will last for weeks.

I have a gH FULL. (Had) LOL Yes Im trying to look at it in some funny way. UnHAppy new year.... Anyhow. Propane is so high. Normally one of those tanks last me 3 cold nights here. Last year was my first year. I did fine. I just kept swaping between 2 bottles. For one thing I switched from A Mr Buddy heater which was fine to a house propane heater with a thermostat. It burns the gas so fast with our extreme temps. I cant finacilly afford it. One tank a night will run me around 80.00 a week. One income wont cut that. I borrowed a kerosene heater and I am going to try setting the clock and getting up in the middle of the night and refilling it. Next year I am going to try a wood burner but with all these stupid taxes for my truck and home I just cant go get one right now. Im struggleing but have a hopeful out look I will recover. It was just so hard seeing all that lush green foilage destroyed in a few hours. Im having a hard time trying to heat our home with gas so I have now had to take the outlook my family or my GH and as much as it pains me I will have no choice but try to tough it out with just the Kerosene for now. I am going to set the clock for around 4 and burn it on high. The crazy thing is all my seedlings are fine. Its the big plants that are being TOURTURED. Thank you all for your tips and support. I needed it.

For SC i can leave MANY things in the ground others cant but I have a feeling i wont see alot comeback this year. ZONE 8 no longer applies...

Butting in here... I think you will be amazed at the plants that will come back from roots. Do not start tossing your plants. As hard as they are to look at, most will survive including those in the ground unless you planted tropicals in the ground. And don't remove dead foliage just yet. It will help insulate the roots and stalks.

Now with that said, considering your budget, look at doing some cheap things first. Around your greenhouse, pile the outside of the base with leaves or pinestraw a foot or two deep. Also if the floor is dirt, insulate it with leaves or pinestraw or even cardboard. If your plants are sitting on a concrete floor insulate under the pots, by setting them up on boards. As you have too many plants to make a smaller greenhouse inside the large one, think about scrounging plastic or bubblewrap and start covering it with a second layer. Do the top first and the heat rises and leaves thru the top. Yes, covering the shelter with blankets will also assist. If you have a fireplace or wood heater in your house, take a coal bucket or other metal container and put hot coals in it and set them in the greenhouse to radiate heat. Just be careful not to let them start a fire. One thing I did when I had a small plastic wrapped shelter was run a heavy duty electrical cord and put light bulbs out there. Not the new CFLs but the ones that put off heat. I tried heat lamps but they were too expensive and burned out too quickly. I am sure there are other ideas. You need to be creative. And yes, bring those that really are special to you indoors. Better not hesitate ~ we are all in for it in the week ahead. Good luck! pod

This message was edited Jan 4, 2010 12:55 PM

Thanks POD!!! Lots of grea tips and energy behind those words. i wont toss till spring..I Promise. Cardboard for the dirt floor is definatly something I can afford. Im going out now to hang something in front of the screen door. BYE GOTTA HURRY!

Good!!! Scrounge the dumpsters in town. Large appliance boxes can be cut down. Bubblewrap gets tossed in areas that there is no place to recycle. Be inventive... chin up! Most of us have been there in finances and in losses.

Oh trust me I am greatful and not complaining. I know It could be so much worse and is for so many people. I will definatly get more inventive. I did stuff fiberglass in the corners. I also went out and put what cardboard I could find on the ground. You have inspired me. I am not above begging for plastic. LOL

Even foam board insulation around the base would be good if you can snag some pieces. And when it is over with and you sort thru what plants survived, if you want to beg for plants, get after it! lol

LOL It may come to begging but Im holding out hope I wont have to or at least have to much...You cant easily find alot of my weird stuff as my Grandpa calls it...

J4J,
Do NOT insulate your floor. The amount of heat lost through a greenhouse floor is, practically speaking, zero. That is why none of the heater calculators factor in the square footage of the floor. Over 60% of the heat is lost throught the roof. Spend your time and money on insulating the roof.

This message was edited Jan 4, 2010 7:53 PM

This message was edited Jan 4, 2010 7:54 PM

Stressbaby ~ not necessarily heat lost thru the floor but cold seeping thru and affecting the roots of pots sitting on the floor?

Are you anywhere someplace that has cattle or horses? If so, put together a small compost bin with leaves, straw, whatever, with some manure and that will help too, by putting out a little heat.

If you can group your plants together, you could also throw a sheet over each group. That will help a little, too.

I'd also be sure and do what Pod suggested....run an extention cord out and put a lamp or two out there (without the shades).

Gonna be a long week or so for the greenhouse owners. Hang in there!

MsRobin ~ that is a good idea with the manure. A friend does that with his greenhouse. The floor is dirt and he gets 'hot' chicken manure. It is sufficient to maintain a temperature the plants can live with even though it is stinky.

When I used lights for some warmth, I used this type of clamp on light fixture. http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/clampon-light-fixture-cable-pi-1808.html The metal seemed to help radiate the light bulbs' heat even more. I raided DHs' stash of these. After all, a girl has to be inventive. 8 )

Podster, I think about it like this: 2-3 feet down, the ground is maybe 40 degrees or more. You are attempting to keep the GH about that same temperature, or at least above freezing, let's just say 35F. The temp differential in this case is only 5 degrees, and it actually favors transfer of heat from the ground into the GH. The temp differential through the roof OTOH is 12 - 35 = -23 degrees, much greater and obviously in the other direction.

Now this is not the same as losses through the perimeter. Studies show your perimeter can be the source of 2-3% of your heat loss. My suspicion has been that this number was calculated for large, commercial-style greenhouses and once when I actually went to the trouble of plugging in all the numbers, a smaller HF-style GH lost more like 10% of the heat through the perimeter. The way to prevent these losses is to insulate your foundation. Go 2 feet down all the way around with and inch or two of rigid foamboard insulation. That's what I did anyway. No way to do that now, of course, you sort of have to do that when the ground isn't frozen. ;-)

Thanks for that information. It is good to know. I have always heard the perimeter needed protection at least a foot or two high.

edited to ask... different circumstances when the ground is frozen deep? Not here obviously... and thankfully.

This message was edited Jan 5, 2010 8:00 AM

Here's a great calculator for heatloss of a GH. This helps select the BTU size of heater required.

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/heat-calc.shtml

My baby from California. She is so awesome she offered to send me this one again when it warms for postage. That made my day...

This thing was huge and was just starting to bloom. I hope one of my babies survives. I got it spring last year. It was very cool.

I find it crazy what took it so hard. The Bromalids took it fine. Crazy. No a sign of stress and I have a couple. The aloe is fine. Others seemed to have melted.

I did manage to keep the GH @ 50 last night. Wonderfullll!!! I did lots of arranging and adding plastic and refiling the kerosene heater at 4 in the morning. But I survived. I guess my sleep has now taken on jobs as well. Its worth it. Just harsh walking out there when your hafe asleep

I tried the light bulb trick, using 7 each 100 W bulbs in my 24x10 GH. Since I am totally off the grid, I set up some old solar panels and 8 old T105 golf cart batteries, hooked to a contoller and a small inverter and a timer. Too much power draw, the inverter turned off at 4 a.m., according to the timer. OK, put in 12V 25W bulbs instead, disconnected the controller & inverter, going straight from the batteries to the light bulbs. I started the lights at 5 p.m. and they stayed on until about 9 p.m., but when I need heat is from 4 to 7. But oh, how beautiful the GH looked while the lights were shining!

Discovered the batteries were not holding a charge, in other words, were useless. Located one 12V maintenance-free battery I'd bought and wasn't using, put it inside the GH and hooked up the 120V lightbulbs, controller, inverter, timer, as before, but only used 2 of them. This worked! Then I took them out and put in one 250W heat lamp bulb, which is working great. I will gradually start adding 100W bulbs until I find at what point the battery can't keep up after a full day of sunshine. Podster says the heat lamp bulbs don't last long so eventually I'll go back to 100W bulbs anyway. Temps here have been 6 degrees at dawn, 40's to 50's during the day, and the GH has not been freezing. Yay.