new person from africa

Hello everyone,
My family and i are missionaries here in Mozambique. i am 15 years old, and have been living here since i was four. we enjoy our life here very much.
we are planning on starting a egg business next year, and we have a couple questions we would like to ask. we have never done something like this before, so would you mind?
Isaac

Welcome Isaac! There are lots of people here who would be more than happy to help you with your questions - ask away!

Hi Isaac! Well welcome to the forum. We could sure use a few good missionaries around here. I'm sure you will be enjoying your new found egg enterprise. Good luck. Haystack

Hi Isaac! What kinds of chickens do you have there? I hope you will post pictures! Welcome!

Welcome, Isaac!

Hi everyone,
thank you very much for the welcome. i don't know much about the egg farm we are planning to start next year, i am actually just passing a lot the first question: As feed is the most expensive expense we would like to know what could be used. To buy feed is very expensive in Mozambique for it needs to be imported. We have 2 hectares of fertile ground and enough water. We are planning for 5000 free range hens and would like to know what we can plant as feed and also what suppliments are essential for feed.
i gotta run, will write some more later.
Isaac

Wecome Isaac! Have always wanted to go to Africa,when you get some time tell us about it and being a missionay,my church has a missionary in Togo.How far away is that from you?WOW 5000 hens,thats a lot of hens.My biggest concern after the feed would be the preditors as you will be free ranges them.

Well, 2 hectares is about 5 acres. The recommended chicken range numbers are 400 per acre. Therefore, on 2 hectares, you should not have more than 2000 chickens free ranging. The reason for that recommendation of 400 birds per acre is based on food availability, parasite load, and general sanitation. Too many birds = big mess! For 5000 chickens to free range, you would need about 12 acres, or about 5 hectares.

You will need a tremendous number of nest boxes for the hens to lay their eggs in. I have found estimates ranging from 1 nest box per 5 birds up to 8 birds. In other words, you would need between 4000 and 5000 nest boxes. That is a huge amount of construction!!

As for feed, chickens are very fond of amaranth, which I think would grow in your climate. In addition, they like many types of greens including grasses, dandelions, clover, etc. I'm not sure what the local weeds are in Mozambique, but chickens probably eat them! They eat nearly any type of grain such as corn, quinoa, spelt, millet, oats, etc. I would think that in those kinds of numbers and concentration, they will need frequent treatment for coccidiosis, since I presume that is a global problem for chickens, especially in climates where winter doesn't reduce the likelihood. You may also need to treat for poultry mites, which are also more common in high concentrations of birds in one place.

Again, I'm not sure what predators you will face where you are, but all our chickens need to be locked into their coops at night to protect them from predators such as: coyotes, foxes, raccoons, opossum, mink/ermine, weasels, etc. I would imagine that you have an entirely different range of predators but I would suspect there must be some kind of wild dogs and/or cat species that would find chickens very tasty. Therefore you either have to be prepared for significant losses or you have to build coops to house the chickens at night, all of which need to be predator proof both on ground level and from digging predators.

Wow, that's a huge operation you are undertaking!

Hi everyone,
i showed my dad what you all wrote, and below is his reply:
"Thanks for the replies. We are already starting to learn a lot! I realize that I did not provide enough detail concerning the questions I asked. What we plan is as follow: The two hectares will be closed off with a 2m high concrete fence around, so the only preditors should be the the two legged ones! Also: I realize that “Free range” can be in different catagories. We visited a chicken farm is S.A. where hens were kept in batteries. We did not like the system and looked into doing “free range” where hens are kept in barns (6 x 6m x 16m) where they walk around freely and have daytime access to runs which are mainly covered with vegteation and with a maximum stocking density of 2500 birds per hectare. The 2500 birds per ha and 9 per s/m in barns info I received from website: http://egginfo.co.uk/page/eggproduction I will appreciate if you could check out this website to know if we came to the right conclusions. We would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to this sort of decision. If 2000 chicks for 2 ha is maximum for what we plan, we will rather stick to it.

Nest boxes: I was wondering if nest boxes could be constructed out of Simbiri wood. Simbiri wood, also called Iron wood is very hard and heavy. Ants cannot eat it and it does not rot. It can be obtained cheap locally. White size should the nest boxes be?

Could you explain “digging preditors”? Thanks

When it comes to feed, I think anything will grow here. What do you think of parsly, I see the hens love it. Another possibility is lecerne which is popular in SA. With our limited ground on this stage, we are thinking of some greens that can grow densely for maximum feed. We are thinking of providing corn for feed inside the barns which can be obtained cheap locally. Somebody also recomennded to take small dried fish and add it to the feed for calcium. Fish is also cheap here.

The birds we are looking into buying will come from SA, you can spot them on http://www.boschveld.co.za/Chicken.htm
Thanks"
i wouldn't mind answering questions, so fire away! it may be a while before i reply, as i am not on this forum everyday. and our internet is quite hazardous at times as well. so thank you everyone, the info you are giving us will help my dad a lot in his decisions.
Isaac

Hi Isaac,

By "digging predators" I meant any kind of animal that can dig under a fence. For example, here we have coyotes (a kind of wild canine) that will dig underneath fences to get onto the other side if they cannot jump over it. Also raccoons will dig a tunnel underneath things if they want something on the other side. Here, it is recommended to bury some chicken wire or other kind of mesh or something to prevent any animals from digging underneath the fence. It is recommended to bury up to 18" deep, underneath the fence, so that even if they try to dig under it, they will meet the wire mesh and will be stopped, hopefully deterring them from any more digging. Now, since you are building a concrete wall, any kind of predator would not be able to see what is on the other side of the wall, although they might be able to smell the chickens and have the idea to dig under the wall.

Since I don't really know what kind of predators you have, I'm not sure what might be doing this, but I can imagine some species of wild dogs that you have there might do it? If you have a footing for the wall that is solid and extends underneath the ground, this should prevent such a problem. One other option is to lay out some kind of wire mesh around the base of the wall so that the wall would make the upright part of the letter L and the wire would make the bottom part of the letter L, so that you have wire extending out flat from the base of the wall. The wire mesh can be buried 1-2 inches under the ground. Any kind of predator that starts to dig would be thus prevented from digging very far.

Also, do you have snakes or large lizards? Snakes will eat baby chicks and also eggs. Will snakes or lizards be able to go over the wall? I do not know much about how they are in Mozambique, but here even the small snakes can climb things and get into structures quite easily.

I looked at the website you mentioned and I see the 2500/ha density rating. It is interesting to read about that. I guess for high density production it must be OK. I think that it will involve quite a bit of clean-up on a daily basis because that many chickens will create a lot of poop! But, it will make good compost material and can be spread (once it has had time to cure, to reduce nitrogen content) to improve fertility of land for growing crops. I guess you can just try it and see how it goes. I have about 100 chickens and they free range over about 2 acres of my 8.5 acres total land. I cannot imagine having 2500 chickens in that space, but I guess it is possible. I wonder if it might be worth starting out with a slightly smaller number than your 5000 plan, just to see how it goes, and then adjust as you feel is necessary or desirable.

I think that the lecerne you mentioned is spelled lucerne here, and it's also called alfalfa. It would certainly be somethig that chickens will eat, along with the parsley too. They will also need access to grit of some kind (larger than sand) because they ingest it and it stays in their gullet to grind the food they eat. Some people provide granite (stone) chips for this purpose. If yours are on land that has small stones on it, they will probably use those and be OK. They also need a good source of calcium to ensure good eggshell production. If they do not have enough calcium, their egg shells can be mis-shapen or very soft and weak. It depends how much calcium is in your soils naturally, and also on their feed source - like you say the dried fish is probably a good idea, especially if there are some bones in it. My chickens get a chicken pellet feed that has calcium in it, and then in the summer, they get eggshells. I bake the eggshells lightly after we use them (collect them over a few days) and then crush them into small particles and sprinkle it on their food. You don't want to give them the shells whole because they will realize they come from the eggs and then you will start to get birds who break and eat eggs (including the shell) and with 5000 birds, it will be very difficult to figure out who is doing it.

The iron wood sounds excellent for the nest boxes. I never thought about ants eating wood - we do not have that problem here. A nest box should be about 12 by 12 inches at the base, and about the same height. So, a square foot should do it. Generally the hens prefer the boxes that have some nesting material such as straw or dried grasses or wood shavings, etc. Of course, this needs to be cleaned from time to time also. Especially this is a problem if the hens take to sleeping in the nest boxes. Some people shut their nest boxes to the hens during the night to prevent this.
Claire

I forgot to say that the Boschveld chickens are beautiful and remind me a little bit of my Speckled Sussex birds.

The Boschvelds are indeed very handsome birds. I wonder if they are ever available in the U.S.?

Thanks for all the valuable info and your time Claire, the Sussex bird looks good and almost similar to what we get around here.

I guess one could contact the owner of the Boshveld birds, Mr Mike Bosch via his web to determine if some of his birds reached the US by now, if not so, i am sure he will be interested in exporting. The area where he has his farm is very similar to Texas, it is situated about 100 km north of Pretoria in SA.

Actually we spell Lucerne also the same, I spelled it wrong. I think I am going ahead with Lucerne feed and if need to, also add pellet feed for Calcium. I also planted a path of birdseed to see how it grows. About the dried fish: It has a lot of bone in it for Calcium, but I was wondering if the fish will not give the eggs a fishy taste or smell? Maybe i should try it on small scale first.

When it comes to preparing my own feed, for example: Corn, dried grinded fish, grit, is there some advisable ratio persentage wise that one should mix the feed? Keeping in mind that Lucerne will be part of the diet as well.

I agree with starting a small number of birds and see how it goes. We need to start small anyway because we need to do marketing and the number of birds should then grow with the market.

Since we are not far from Kruger National Park we have many from the preditors that moved to our area over time. That included dogs, wild cats of different kinds, jackall, eagles. This is also a snake paradise, including python. I agree with the wire mesh method and a wall high enough for snakes not to get in.

Another question: when starting, should we buy chicks, buy eggs with incubator or buy grown birds. Since we have to transport via road over 1000 km, i guess the firts options will be more advisable?

Also: what is the cure for cannibalism among the birds?

Could you please advise a book that has comprehensive info on what we are planning.

Thank you,
Wimpie
(Isaac's Father)

I don't know that it would apply.. but an egg farm our way has a rooster house.. but not near the egg batteries. I don't know that he uses it to hatch meat birds, or replacements for the losses due to free range risks...


again, I don't know anything about large scale farming... would you need a separate area for producing new hens as fertilized eggs are generally not marketable (at least in the u.s.)

About the dried fish and the possible smell/taste, I am not sure. I feed garlic to my hens because it is reported to have anti-pathogenic properties and possibly help with parasites. The science is a bit sketchy on it but it can't do any harm. I do not find any change in egg taste, and I am not a big fan of garlic to eat, so I think I would taste it. I think it would be the same with fish, but as you say, a small experiment is a good idea.

As for ratio percentage for feed (I am taking this from a book I shall recommend later in this note), protein is the most important component for both layer and meat birds. Ration requirements for protein in layers from 0-6 weeks is 18-20%. For 6-14 weeks it is 16-18%. For 14-20 weeks it is 14-16%, and past 20 weeks it is 16-18%. For roosters, 9% protein is sufficient.

To mix your own rations, you need a carbohydrate for energy (corn or other grains), protein, and vitamins/minerals (some of which can come from the carbohydrate and protein sources). There is a chart in the book which I won't reproduce here, but it includes carbohydrate sources such as grain (corn, milo, barley, oats, wheat, rice, etc), wheat bran, rice bran etc. High protein sources are soybean meal, peanut (groundnut) meal, cottonseed meal, sunflower meal, sesame meal, but also fish meal. Alfalfa meal or bone meal are given I believe for the calcium. Vitamin supplements of vitamin A and D such as from yeast or milk powder can be used. Also ground limestone, marble or oyster shell for calcium and grit. For these categories of ingredients, it gives a chart for preparation of 100 lbs (45 kg) of feed, with appropriate weights of each feed source.

This same book also recommends that the stocking rate for free ranged flocks on well managed pasture is 500 per hectare, or for a confined flock (your set up) on well managed pasture is 1250 birds per hectare. They point out that because of the chicken poop, over time, the pasture soil will increase in acidity. When the soil pH drops below 5.5, they recommend spreading barn lime at 4.5 metric tons per hectare, and rest the pasture to give plants time to rejuvenate and break the cycle of any infectious worms/parasites. If the soil pH is not brought back up, plants will cease to grow.

The book that I would strongly recommend that addresses many of these questions and a lot more information is "Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens" by Gail Damerow. The same author has an excellent book on chicken health called the "Chicken Health Handbook." When you are dealing with a lot of birds, I would recommend having a good health reference available because it is excellent with listings of symptoms and helping you figure out what is wrong. This is ISBN number 978-1-58017-325-4. It is about 330 page paperback book and I learned a tremendous amount from it when I began keeping chickens. If you cannot seem to locate it through a book seller in your area, let me know and I can perhaps send you a copy. Here is the Amazon.com listing for it.
http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Guide-Raising-Chickens-Facilities/dp/158017325X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255454762&sr=8-1

Cure for cannibalism is often the use of red lights. The baby chicks need warmth and many people use red heat bulbs in their lights so that the chickens can't see blood in the red light. They are therefore much less likely to cannibalize. I believe cannibalization also goes up with increased bird density. There is a small section on cannibalism (and egg eating) in the above book.

When starting, buying an incubator is a big investment. The incubators I have were about $200 each and hold 40 eggs. You can buy huge cabinet incubators that incubate many eggs but they are very high cost and require careful transportation, etc, so maybe not a great idea? If you buy chicks, that would be easier. I would recommend an initial feed with a coccidiosis inhibitor to prevent high mortality rates, and maybe also Marek's Disease vaccinations. You might want to ask the Boschveld people if Marek's Disease is a problem in your part of the world - it can be a cause of high mortality here. Buying a mix of mature birds and chicks might be a good option because then you would start getting some eggs right away (rather than waiting about 5 months for laying to begin) and you would also have a new generation coming along at the same time.

The book I mentioned has excellent information on raising chicks. Among other topics, it has chapters on housing, feeding, layer bird management (also meat bird chapters), eggs (including sanitation), incubation, hatching, chick care, general flock management, health care, etc.

You may also want to look into some of the books by Joel Salatin, who does commercial scale poultry raising using sustainable practices. Great ideas and sensible information.

Welcome Isaac and Wimpie. You've come to the right place. I'm learning right along with you.

Brenda

actually.. not to distract too much from the thread, but I am really interested in the other house, and just how many birds and rooster does it take to keep 5,000 going? is that why it is seperated...

if this is distracting, i will try to post the question elsewhere, or try to talk to the farmer... quite a curiosity for me..... again, I apologize if my question on how many roosters and hens it takes to keep 5,000 going in a free range environment is distracting from this VERY interesting thread.

JJconcepts - I would suspect that the rooster house at the farm near you is separated for a number of reasons:
1) it can be soundproofed while the batteries do not need to be.
2) any escaped rooster is more likely to be noticed before it gets to the hen buildings.
3) your point about not selling fertilized eggs is definitely relevant!
4) They probably want to prevent rooster fights so they keep the roosters individually housed rather than in a group setting like the hens, which is more costly but doesn't take up as much space.

I think in order to keep a flock of 5000 laying hens going, just by natural breeding, it would be quite complex because there are so many factors. One rooster can supposedly service about 20 hens, and on average, a hen would sit on maybe 8-12 eggs, depending on the breed, but not all hens go broody at once, and the broody ones aren't laying eggs while they are brooding. That said, if each hen raises say 3-4 clutches a year, that is 24-48 babies a year, but half of those will be roosters, so you need to deal with:
1) excess rooster problem - what to do with them? Eat them? Sell them?
2) calculate baby chick mortality, and guesstimate 12-24 female chicks per hen?
3) Not all hens go broody
4) depending on climate, maybe more than 3-4 clutches per year, but then significantly reduced egg production from that bird over a year.

I think you'd have to separate out small groups of layers, put the rooster in with them for a while, wait until they all go broody, or at least a bunch of them do, then move the rooster to a new set of hens. The rooster sperm stays viable for up to 30 days (so I have read) in the hen, so even eggs she lays up to 30 days post-rooster-removal could still be fertile. It might be easiest to have a group of say 100 to 200 hens that you specifically use for breeding, with 10 roosters perhaps, and then as the hens age, bring in new breeding stock.

That is another question for Isaac & Wimpie -- as your hens age, their egg production will drop over time. You will probably want to consider how you will deal with this issue - will you use the older hens for meat birds? I have some older hens who lay only 1-2 eggs a week. It doesn't matter to me, but I'm not in the high production business, so they can live out their "retirement" on my farm. But, you don't want a flock of 5000 "retired hens" if you want a lot of eggs! So you will need a plan on how to determine when your hens drop in egg production and what your plan is for them. One way you could do this is with different coloured leg bands. So, in year one you use blue leg bands, year two you use green, year three you use yellow, etc, and then you will know which hens came from which year. Some hens will be productive for 5+ years, some only for 2-3. It really depends on the breed and I don't know enough about the Boschveld chickens to know. But how will you know, in a flock of 5000 (or even 2000), which ones are laying 5 or 6 eggs a week, and which are only laying 2-3 eggs?

amazing.. they do have a culling and meat house, and was wondering just what it takes.. a big job not unlike any other..

westraad - there is no intent to hijack your thread
Cmoxon.. thank you, I will head up to the farm again soon to see how it works...

thank you.
-joe-

Joe, I appreciated your input and reply from Claire, your'e not hijacking at all, we appreciate all input. Claire, About the aging hens, we will sell them after a year, I believe that is more or less the period for max productivity? What I gatered from the Boshveld hens is that they are full productive for a little more that a year. Here in Mozambique the meatbirds price double around Christmas time, so it will be a good time to sell.

With the info I have now from you on the matter, I think we should start of with chicks and a grown birds mix for starters and later on, after the project is up and running decide on a rooster house.

To identify the birds in terms of aging: Please tell us if it is going to work: The 2 ha ground to our desposal will be devided into 6 equal parts, each with its own shed with access to its vegitation camp. If we then buy a round rumber of chicks like 500, we keep them in shed/camp nr 1 and the next batch in a different one, so they do not mix with each other. Other than monotoring the age, I guess it will also help pest control this way. When we get a incubator or rooster house, your advise with the leg band, I think will work great.

Thanks also for the info on feed. Someting I was thinking about: It is easy to obtain ground here (other that the 2ha) for planting and I was hoping to plant maize as part of the feed, but now i am considering something else. Theft is a real problem here, i am thinking of growing something that the locals cannot use for food themselved or do not know at all.

I order the book mentioned from Amazon and am looking forward to dig into it. Thanks.

Yes, I agree that the dividing of the land into separated areas is a very good way to keep the birds identified in terms of age. I think that a year is appropriate, or 1.5 years, but remember to measure it from the point that they begin to lay (around 5-6 months), not from their hatching date.

I am so pleased you were able to order the book from Amazon. I did not realize they would deliver that far!

It is very unfortunate about the theft problem, but I can understand it. Of course, maize is sometimes a very intensive crop - a lot of fertilizer and space for only 1 ear of corn per plant (or sometimes 2) and that single ear will not make that much feed. It takes a lot of space and a lot of maize plants to make an appreciable amount of feed. Chickens will eat so many different things - they love cabbage, lettuce, carrots, squash/pumpkin, peas, cucumber, courgette, tomatoes, etc. I hope you can find something to grow that will not be stolen. Perhaps millet would be a good choice. At best it could be ground into flour I suppose, for human use. I'm not sure that people would steal it for that purpose.

We will all look forward to hearing about your project as it progresses!

Thanks again for the advise. I have to check what is millet, never heard of it, must be called something else here.

I know this is off the topic but I just want to give a bit of a background on our personal situation: As a missionary family we came to Mozambique a bit more that 10 years ago. In this time we ran different projects to fund our work among widows and orphans. Over the last years we concentrated on children, bringing them the good news of the Gospel and helping those in need where we can. Last year we had a sawmill that we sold and after we realized there is a market for it, are now concentrating on egg farming.

The reason I am mentioning it is to let you know that you advising us on the project is indeed helping those around us as indirectly. I will keep you up to date with the progress.
We are now waiting for the approval from the Xai Xai Town Council for us to go ahead with the construction.

I do not have any other questions at the moment that I can think of, but I am sure they will come up all the time as we proceed, in which case we will place them here again. Thanks. Wimpie

Wimpie you mentioned enclosing you chicken yard with a 2 meter concrete wall, and you also said that there was a wildlife area nearby. I don't know what sort of wild cats are around, but many domestic cats can jump to the top of a 2 meter wall. You might consider adding an off-set wire fence leaning out from the top to deter the cats.
I think your project sounds exciting and very possible, good luck!

I agree with the wire fence, I am also considering an ostrich or two, I am not sure about elsewhere, but they are good watchdogs all over SA.

Ah yes! I have heard that about ostrich. They are not very common here but you see them sometimes. We use llamas as guardians for our sheep flocks. They will kill dogs/coyotes. I saw an ostrich at our state fair this year in the agriculture displays. I was so amazed at the size of its feet. They were just enormous. I imagine it can deliver a nasty kick.

Yes, with ostrich one only needs to be careful for a male guarding the nest. I heard of cases where they killed humans with one kick. They say, when in trouble with ostrich you need to lay down as the last source of escape, it can step on you but cannot kick like when you were standing up. I dont think there is one ostrich in Mozambique. The locals do not know that they can become like pets, and will probably stayed scared. This should help our project, its situated close to a housing area.

Claire, forgot to ask: could post a photo of the llama. its most interesting.

In case anyone is interested, here is the picture of the ostrich I saw at our state fair this summer

I also took a picture of the foot that was closer because I was so amazed by its size. Here is the ostrich foot.

Also I took a picture of the display of some baby ostrich, which are very cute and not at all threatening!

Here is a picture of one of our llamas, named Cesar. He is our smallest one. He is very protective of the flock and will make strange throaty noises if unfamiliar people approach. He is in full fleece here. We shear the llamas every spring, around May, and then they grow back their coat over the summer into fall. This picture was just before shearing. (sorry for the messy background, we are putting up a new barn.)

Here you can see two of our female llamas from last winter, with one of the Nigerian Dwarf Goats that we have. They are very gentle with the goats. You can see one of them is looking back up the hill to another llama that is white - she blends in with the snow! We have 6 llamas in total. They are all together in the winter because all the animals are together. In the spring when things are growing, they can be separated into their own pastures. For the winter, everybody eats the same hay.

nice photos. where is home for you? in mozambique it never snows!

Interesting about the goats around here: locals never drink the milk, they only keep them for slaughter. They are not very big and are all over Mozambique. They are very tough. They sell for cheap in the northern parts of the country, so the trucks coming from the north usually load as many as possible on their trucks to sell them in the south. It is amazing how the goats keep their balance at the back of the trucks, on top of the high loads, at high speed they even duck for the trees and branches!

Home for me is in Iowa, central Iowa, which is in the mid-north central US. I am originally from Canada though. I only moved here 7 years ago. I was very accustomed to snow before I moved to Iowa of course, but in fact, there is more snow in Iowa than in the parts of Canada I had lived in, which was a surprise to me.

The Nigerian Dwarf goats are such excellent milkers. It is a shame if the locals do not use the milk because it would be great food for the children and for cooking also. It is a sad loss of a potential food source that is full of vitamins and a good fat content. Goat's milk is much better for the human digestive system than cow's milk. You can also use goat milk for nursing orphaned animals, such as baby deer, even puppies and kittens. In all cases, better than cow's milk because it is easier to digest. The goats are not big but they are very clever here too! They are masters at learning to escape from the pasture. They are very affectionate too.

For the rams, when they butcher them for meat, they should consider keeping the horns. The horns (above the hollow part) can be sliced into about 1/4 inch slices and buffed up to make beautiful buttons. They sell for a good price here.

This maybe a long shot: Since here is also a market for prawns, (shrimp in some places) I made provision on our application at the Xai Xai Town Council to run such a project as well. I believe I need more capital to get such a project off the ground, compared to the eggs. That being the reason to start with laying hens first and look at the prawns project later on. Now my question is: Will I find somebody on Dave’s garden with knowledge and experience in freshwater shrimp that will also help with advice? From SA I can get info on Tilapia but not prawns. Thanks.

I'm afraid I'm no help, but hopefully someone will be. Try also posting on the Farming Forum. Good luck!