What Bromeliads can with stand being left outside over winter. Although we have faily mild winters it will get down under 32 degrees more than just a few times over winter. Once in a great while it gets down into the 20's but those years are not very often.
Will Cleopatra's Earring withstand the cold? I think they are Bill's. A friend of mine planted about 200 of them in her yard and I'm scared to death that they will not over winter there and should be taken in.
I really need to know the answers to these questions.
Happy Gardening, Marian
I really need to know the answers to this question.
I don't know Marian, but we are discussing this on the SW gardening forum too and
iI'll come back and post what we figure out.
Hi, Marian. It sounds like we are in the same climate Zone. My winters here are right on the borderline of 8b/9a. There typically are a few incursions below 32 F on a few nights for a few hours, and then we sometimes have the "freakish" winters like last year with temperatures in the low 20s F for several hours on several nights. Looking at the USDA Zone Map, the 20s F averaged over a period of time are sort of the expected norm and we are just lucky to have winters that are warmer most of the time.
During normal winters (with 32 F or as low as 28 F), I have not had any trouble getting most bromeliad genera to survive outdoors in the ground. I grow Aechmea, Vriesea, Billbergia and Cryptanthus and they all can survive temperatures below freezing. In the past, I haven't done anything for frost and freeze protection of my bromeliads. The 20s F temperatures last winter killed off the foliage on most of these, with the Billbergia seeming to come through with the least freeze damage. I was very pleasantly surprised, however, that with a slow recovery time of a few months unmolested, most of the other bromeliad genera recovered from the freeze damage and sent up new growth from what remained of the root crown. So, even with those extremes, my bromeliads still performed as "perennials" in my climate.
I've taken a different route with planting bromeliads the past two years. I'm providing a more natural planting medium by placing my bromeliads on the large trunks of some oak trees I had taken down in 2004 during the spate of one hurricane after another and due to the threat of the old oak trees looming over my house roof with individual limbs as large as a good sized tree. I had the tree surgeon leave all the cut trunks and limbs (1) to save money on the cost of felling the tree - about 50% savings (2) so that the workers wouldn't be dragging tree limbs and debris through my established garden (3) to possibly provide some habitat for critters that might want to live around the decaying wood. In my hot humid climate with lots of wood-destroying insects, it didn't take long for even the 3 ft diameter oak trunks to begin to decay. The result after a few years was (1) a good supply of very rich, dark humus soil compost from the decaying wood which amends my sandy soil better than anything I've previously found (2) a VERY happy and multiplying population of earthworms (3) a chance encounter to plant bromeliads on the tree stumps. The result is that the bromeliads on the decaying stumps are MUCH happier than any of my bromeliads in the garden soil plantings. The difference in their vigor is truly amaziing between those bromeliads planted on the stumps and those in the ground. An additional advantage this winter will be that I can easily build a tent over the bromeliad planting using pvc pipe and 6 mil plastic sheeting, and cover the bromeliads with a few dozen strings of small Christmas tree (twinkle" lights and probably bring the bromeliads through the winter with minimal, if any, frost or freeze damage. Another advantage of this bromeliad planting is that I can experiment with adding other tropical plants (Epidendrum terrestrial reed orchids, Cissus discolor vine, Stromanthes, etc.) and probably have them survive the winter because they will also be protected under the tent and twinkle lights.
I will be building the tent and adding the twinkle lights soon after Christmas. I am very happy that the weather here has held off on dropping below about 35 F and I will be able to rush out to the after-Christmas sales to stock up on twinkle lights at greatly reduced prices. I will post some photos here when I get the winter enclosure constructed and the lights installed.
Edited to add: I also grow pineapple bromeliads (Ananas spp.). The conventional wisdom that pineapple plants can't survive below 50 F is totally bogus. They are actually as hardy as other bromeliads I grow and also returned from the root crown after the freeze damage of 20 F last winter, or survived without much damage (like my red-leaved Ananas) due to the minor frost/freeze protection provided by overhanging, taller plants. And yes, I do get pineapple fruit every few years from my pineapple bromeliads! Here's an article I wrote for DG a few years ago about my successful pineapple mini-plantation: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/174/
Jeremy
This message was edited Dec 24, 2009 1:59 PM
Good advice from someone who deals with outdoor growing.
I have to agree about the Pineapples. This year I left a very large variegated Ananas that was pretty much spent to see what it would take. It took consistant mid 20s to finally kill it. It did produce quite a few pups before I let it go.
dd
Ooops! I just saw that the photo I included shows my Brugmansia planting immediately adjacent (in my garden and in my photo files) to the Bromeliads planted on oak trunks. Sorry! Now I know why that "preview" option is available prior to posting. LOL
Jeremy
Outdoor pineapple garden. The red pineapple is looking a bit ragged in this photo, but is actually very healthy and I was able to share a pup from it a few days ago.
Jeremy
Bromeliads on felled, decaying oak tree trunks and a palm tree trunk.
Jeremy
What a pretty planting!
Thanks, 3js! It is about the only garden spot I have that is somewhat "finished" (though I keep adding things just about daily LOL).
It doesn't show in the photo, but the two oak trees are sliced off flat just above the top edge of the photo. They are the source of the oak trunks on which the bromeliads are planted. I had the tree surgeon leave a portion of the trunks about 20 ft high because most people passing by won't look up and it maintains the appearance of some massive oaks without the danger of huge limbs crashing into my house (which is just off to the left of the photo). Also, the two oaks are the perfect distance apart to hang a hammock, a feature previously discovered by a former owner of the house who installed eye hooks at the correct level for a hammock. The live oak died, but the water oak (on the right side in the photo), considered the topping surgery to be not more than a close shave haircut. It branched out and continues to grow (with smaller twiggy limbs, so far) at the point of the cut and just below. I've let vines (like Creeping Fig - Ficus repens, white-flowering Japanese wisteria, and Virginia Creeper) climb the remaining trunks to further disguise the truncated trunks.
Jeremy
Thanks for all the information everybody. I really enjoyed reading them and seeing all your beautiful photos Jeremy.
I'm kicking myself in the tail now after seeing your photos. I live in the country/boonies and last year I had my husband bring a huge dead tree with lots of holes and things in it up to one of my gardening trails. I knew it would be perfect with tons of broms planted and anchored all over it. But after seeing it set there for about a month in the winter without anything on it I decided I didn't want it. Now I'd give anything in the world to have it back and planted like you did yours. We burned it so now if I'm going to do anything like your's I'll have to go scour our property for another big beautiful dead tree. LOL I'm going to see if I can find a picture of the one I burned and post it here. I'm so upset, I'll be kicking myself until I find another tree that will look as good as the one I destroyed. I guess I can mark this up to a lesson learned the hardway. (Sticking out bottom lip and pouting)
By the way do any of you ever do any trades with your bromelaids. I have over 100 some I know the names of and some I don't. But I'm always looking for ways to get more. (grin)
The dead tree was about 12-14 ft long with lots of places to stick plants. Keep looking, and I'm still kicking myself for burning this tree when I knew exactly how wonderful it would look with tons of broms all over it.
From this veiw it looks like some kind of animal howling or something.
another view
just to give you an ideal of how big it was and a couple of limbs we left on it to plant more plants.
I'm still kicking myself because this tree had so much going for it to use as a mass planting for Broms.
Lovely, stop kicking. I figure it this way.... You must have needed the space for something else, and it will be along :).
No need to "pine" over your lost stump, liris! LOL Another one will come along and you will then know it can be planted. My oak trunks had already decayed about 4 years and it was easy to plant broms in them. If you start with a fairly fresh trunk or stump, you may need a drill with the kind of hole saw bit like the type that is used to drill a round hole for a door lock assembly or a wide router type drill bit.
The city finally took down an old diseased oak by the curb in front of my property about two years ago -- but not before I had complained about 3 times over about a 6 year period, each time with the city inspectors marking the tree for removal, then it finally dropped a 40 ft limb as large as a full-sized tree itself across my yard during a persistent tropical storm. Fortunately, the tree limb missed my house but did take out the phone line and crushed some plants (for which I demanded and received a suitable cash settlement for the city's negligence!). Anywhos - the contractor didn't bother to grind up the 4 ft diameter oak stump from the old tree, so I will have another bromeliad planting spot when the warm weather returns in early March. I may use the flat, wide oak stump as a base for some sort of sculpture also, but I need to keep in mind that anything I put outside my property fence may grow legs and walk away with passersby. LOL
Jeremy
And I suppose the lesson I would like to share from that story is: If the city owns a tree on the curb at your property and it shows signs of disease, do complain and document your complaints! The old Live Oak on my curb had repeatedly dropped limbs across the road and showed several signs of disease (such as large fungi and dead limbs). As a result of my documentation of the problem, I had no problem getting a settlement when the tree finally did cause damage to my property.
Of course, every city and jurisdiction may be different, but "the squeaking wheel does eventually get oiled."
Jeremy
Oh my Jermy, your so lucky that tree didn't do more damage to your place. Thank goodness it spared your home and car.
You are so very right to document everything and keep excellent records of conversations, complaints and so forth regarding the tree. I had a incident that was the nightmare from you know where regarding a tree and the electric company.
We had a pine tree on our property line that was surrounded on all sides with electrical and phone lines. So you can get an ideal it was a triangle of wires and the tree was right in the middle. This tree started doing the same thing, dropping limbs and dying. The limbs were in the electric lines on all sides so no one I could hire would touch cutting it down. You always hear the electric company say don't go near the wires call them. Ha Ha, after three years of calling and complaining and them coming out several times the tree finally fell during a hard wind. Mine and the neighbors kids were playing football about 15 ft from where it landed. It could have killed one of them had they not run away. It completely demolished my daughters car cutting it in half. It jerked all the electrical lines off the poll and off our house. The live wires were out there jumping all over the place and all the plugs in the house were smoking and blew everything that was plugged into the up. Best part is yet to come. The fire department come out, they call the electric company and they shut the main power to our house off and fix it to where we can't have electricity until we have at our expense a electrician our and have all the wiring re-done.
The electric company said that it was "An Act of God" and they would not be responsible for anything. Needless to say I was fit to be tied. I told them I was going to the electric company and get copies of all my complaints and that it was not an act of God it was they were too lazy to cut it down. I drove to their office later that day and wouldn't you know it. They had no records of me calling and complaining. Of course that just added fuel to the fire and I told them that they had not heard the last from me. I kept calling them and talking to different people higher up with the company and got the run around each time and was told they were trying to work on it. LOL
After a couple of months of nothing being done I wrote an article to the newspaper and it took up one entire page. I wrote everything down that had happened for the past couple of years and their response each time. Then I started listing the names of the people that I had talked to and the one's that had come out and looked at the tree but didn't cut it down and so forth. I guess that's one of the perks of living in a small rural town. Everyone knows everyone by name. With all the information I had provided in the paper and all the calls I made to them, the public was as furious with them as I was when they found out the Electric Company was calling it an act of God.
Bottom line is within a week of my letter to the Editor we were reinbursed for just about everything.
So my advice to anyone is just like you said document EVERYTHING between you and the city, county, or electric company when it comes to stuff like this. Take pictures too when you can. Keep all those records in a safe place and don't get rid of them until the problem is removed or resolved.
I'm going to take the Big John Deere tractor and go to the back of the farm and see if I can locate me another old tree to drag up closer to the house for my broms. I have several different sizes of those bits to drill the holes in a tree or anything else. I have one about the size of the hole you drill for door knobs and one a little bigger than that. I could actually put some of those smalls pots in the larger size I have. Now that's another ideal and I could plant some stuff besides broms. Maybe a couple of different ferns and things. I'll take photos when I do it.
Now instead of kicking myself I'll start dreaming about how beautiful my tree is going to be this summer. (grin)
Wow, lovelyIris! That was some debacle with your tree! I feel very lucky to have been spared with just having a downed phone line and some crushed plants (most of which did recover, and I knew they would, but I was so perturbed with the city for leaving the tree for so many years and the "expert" landscaper they sent out to confirm the damage agreed with my assessment, so I didn't say "no" when the city finally offered a cash settlement LOL). Sometime prior to the tree limb falling on my property, I had asked the department to mail me a copy of my complaint record, so as soon as I made the claim for the falling limb, I had all the complaint numbers and dates available to toss into my claim. Even with that info, the city was dragging their feet for about 6 months about doing anything (hoping I would just get tired of complaining, remove the huge limb at my own expense, and let it slide). I didn't get any action until I had an attorney friend send the department a letter saying basically, "act now or we will see you in court." That got a cleanup crew out here within about a week and the settlement check soon followed.
Possibly the worst experience I had with the falling tree limb was the indescribable, tremendous "THUD!" it made when it hit the ground. My 2-story wood frame house actually shook from the vibrations! I'm sure I jumped straight out my chair about 3 feet in the air when the noise occurred. As you can see in the photo above, the entire limb ripped off all at once (from the diseased black tissue at the heart of the tree) and crashed straight to the ground. It was so dark out that when I went outside to investigate, it took me a while to realize that about 1/4 of my front yard was now an impassable tangle of oak tree debris. I could see wires were down, but since the electricity was still working (fortunately the limb had missed the power supply line by a matter of inches), I knew it must be the phone line that was on the ground. My wife was in Atlanta at the time taking care of her mother after her mom had been injured in a bathtub fall. Tropical Storm Faye had come to sit on top of Jacksonville for about 3 days -- very unusual for this type of storm -- and Christina was calling me several times a day to check on things. I knew she would totally freak if she couldn't get through to me, so I made a post in the DG Florida Forum with a request that someone call Christina at her mom's number in Atlanta to let her know I and the pets were O.K., but that the phone was out and we now had an unplanned oak forest in a good portion of the yard. It was great that a DG friend picked up on the request and made the call right away. Another wonderful advantage of DG and the Internet!
Jeremy
I just love my DG friends. They are the best and go out of the way to help each other. I'm always amazed at what they can do and do for each other.
Jeremy do you do any brom trading? I'd like to do some trades when spring or summer roll around this year.
I'll have to update my information as I don't really have a list of what broms I have listed anywhere on the computer. I have a list of some of them on notebook paper around here somewhere. It's in a salf place! LOL
Thanks for getting back with me. Best Regards, Marian
Hi, Marian. Sure, I would love to trade some bromeliads. Most of my broms come as UFOs (Unidentified Flowering Objects LOL) from bargain rack distressed plant rescues or in trade with friends that don't always know species/cultivar, but I do have some that I've been able to identify. This variegated one (photo attached) came to me last year from a local DG friend. I love the purple bloom, but the flower is very short lived (dries up within a few days). This morning, I did a tour of my half acre garden, snapping photos of all the plants to document for future reference which ones got some amount of freeze damage and which ones just totally thumbed their nose at low 20s F temperatures. Quite a few surprises. One of which was to recall that I have a bunch of bromeliads out by the curb that I planted several years ago and that got overtaken by my propensity to find great value in weeds. I guess some of the weeds were killed back by the freeze and revealed the bromeliads. In any case, I was happy to find that I have quite a few of the "fingernail polish" type broms with the red tips on the leaves. The bromeliads are easy to come by in my area because so many people grow them and they multiply easily in our climate. Plant nurseries carry them and generally overwater them, which sends them to the bargain rack for plant junkies like me to snap up and help the broms to recuperate.
I don't know if you would be interested because they are truly one of the most treacherous plants as far as spines go (fish hooks turned backwards so if you stick your hand in toward the center of the plant you become the catch of the day LOL) and they do spread like weeds (one plant given to me by a neighbor has become about 15 plants within a plot of about 6 ft x 6 ft within about 3 years), but I do have far too many Heart of Flame (Bromelia balansae http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/68489/ ). If you have a teenager that wants to climb out a window to go roaming late at night, or fear that some burglar might want to try to break in through an accessible window, you can plant B. balansae beneath the window and your problem will be solved!! LOL No one would venture through them without screaming in agony!
The only problem with my plant trading is that I am the world's worst about ever getting around to mailing plants. I always ask in any trade that no one send me a plant until I've sent what I've promised. I am already walking around in guilt and shame with every trip I make around my garden, seeing all the plants that I've promised and not yet mailed. I had a "surrogate mailer" at one time, a DG friend that was willing to box up and ship plants for me in exchange for free range cuttings or divisions from any of the plants in my one-of-everything botanical collection, but she became busy with her own job and gardens and I'm left with a long list of plants waiting to hop in a box. Do send me a Dmail though and I will gladly share whatever I have!
Jeremy
Oops! Forgot to attach the variegated bromeliad photo.
Jeremy
I have had this thread on my mind all summer, and will revisit it now to share what I have learned about overwintering bromeliads outdoors.
We had a record cold winter in Florida last year. In my area, the temperatures were in the low 20s F for about a ten day period -- a stretch of cold without precedent in our area and throughout much of the state. I lost a lot of my more tropical plants, but I was able to get most of my bromeliads to survive by some frost and freeze protection measures -- some that I devised and others that occurred naturally.
My bromeliad "grotto" growing on the old oak stumps continues to be one of my favorite and most complete areas of my yard. I was able to protect this planting by erecting a tent using 1.5 inch pvc pipe covered in 6 mil plastic sheeting (available at most hardware stores in large rolls of 50 to 100 ft x 12 ft wide for about $40). Nearly all the bromeliads in this area protected by the tent came through the severe freezes with little damage. I learned that a large tent with a lot of air space provides more protection than a small covering close to the top of plants. The purpose of covering plants is not so much to keep the cold air out; but rather it is to keep warm air in. A large tent has more air space that can heat up by day and cool down more slowly by night whereas a small tent that barely covers the plants will cool down quickly as temperatures drop. I learned this cruel lesson by losing some of my Spathaglottis ground orchids which had made it through previous winters. I will soon be erecting the protective tents for this winter for the bromeliad grotto and will get some photos. I also draped the plants in the bromeliad grotto with lots of "twinkle lights" (the small, thin long lights that pull out of the socket and have contact with two tiny wires). These lights help to raise the temperature in the immediate vicinity of the plants by a few degrees. This winter, I may experiment with putting a small electrical heater in the bromeliad tent on the coldest nights, making sure the heater will stay dry.
Some of the bromeliads in my yard that I didn't cover came through the freezes just about as well as the bromeliads under the tent. These bromeliads survived due to overhanging evergreen vines (native Cross Vine, Bignonia capreolata 'Jekyll' primarily). It was amazing to me that an overhead canopy within about 6 ft above the bromeliads could provide so much protection.
Bromeliads that were in more open locations died back completely to the root crown due to the severe freezes, but many of them regenerated and made new growth from the root system.
Most of my pineapple "plantation" (about 12 pineapple plants, some of which have previously produced fruit) froze out completely, but some of those pineapple bromeliads also recovered from the root systems. I have what I think is a variety of red pineapple (it hasn't ever bloomed or made fruit, and I got it at a DG roundup with no I.D. for the plant, so I'm not sure). That red pineapple bromeliad proved to be especially hardy, barely showing any freeze damage at all even though it was in a mostly open location. It had some minimal cover from the broad leaves of a White Bird of Paradise, Strelitzia nicolai, about 3 ft overhead, but that tropical plant's leaves were destroyed with the first freeze so it couldn't have helped much. The Strelitzia also recovered and returned this spring [a larger S. nicolai (about 12 ft tall) in a different area of my garden was also killed back to the ground with the oldest plants dying out but new growth came from the roots.]
Also, my red starfish bromeliads (Cryptanthus bivittatus - probably the 'Ruby' cultivar) showed little freeze damage though they are in a mostly open location. So, maybe the red coloration in bromeliads can be a guide to choosing cold resistant varieties?
In addition to the especially hardy red pineapple bromeliad, there were also some variegated white/green bromeliads (also unidentified as to species) that survived without much damage in open locations.
So, my opinion from the especially severe weather we had last winter is that bromeliads are more cold hardy than might typically be thought. The long stretch of 20s F temperatures we had were mostly at night with some warming during the day which may not be typical for areas further north, but based on my experiences, I think some bromeliads can probably be grown as far north as 8a, possibly even into 7b if some protection is provided.
A couple of other notes: Be patient with freeze damaged bromeliads and don't throw them out even if they look totally dead. Some of mine that were killed back to the ground are only just now (about a year later) showing good recovery. Don't be too "tidy" with weeding as freezing weather approaches. A canopy of taller weeds around a bromeliad may be enough to provide frost/freeze protection.
(photo: a corner of the bromeliad "grotto" with the bromeliads growing on large old oak tree trunks -- the best method I've found to grow bromeliads outdoors)
Jeremy
This bromeliad was probably provided some protection from the surrounding weeds (Florida Betony, Stachys floridana and invasive sword ferns, Nephrolepis cordifolia). I will leave the weeds in place until springtime.
Jeremy
These bromeliads showed surprisingly little frost and freeze damage. They had protection from an overhanging Cross Vine (Bignonia capreolata 'Jekyll'). The nearby evergreen Cast Iron Plants (Aspidistra elatior) may have also generated some warmth and protection.
Jeremy
This variegated green/white bromeliad (unidentified species) proved to be especially hardy. It is growing beneath a very tall pine tree, but is mostly in the open with no protection.
Jeremy
Patience pays! These bromeliads are just now getting a good start after freezing back completely last winter.
Jeremy
Pineapple plants (Ananas spp.) also were slow to recover, but are doing well now. I may try covering them with a layer of hay, straw or pine needles this winter to provide some protection.
Jeremy
This red pineapple (? - not yet identified) is especially cold hardy.
Jeremy
Also amongst the most cold hardy are these red starfish bromeliads (Cryptanthus).
Jeremy
This photo shows bromeliads that had severe freeze damage, but are now recovering.
Jeremy
Here you can see the freeze damage to the "vase" of this large Aechmea fasciata on the original plant at the top of the photo. It responded by sending out a lot of "pups" from the root crown.
Jeremy
Another view of the bromeliad "grotto." This season, I added a lot of trailing vines, Peacock Ginger (Kaempferia), Spider Plants (Chlorophytum) and even some Reed Orchids (Epidendrum spp.). It will be interesting to see if the Epidendrums can survive the winter and flower next year. They grow further south as ground orchids landscape plants.
Jeremy
I too have about 10 varieties of Broms many of which have "no name". This definitely does not compare to what you have Jeremy. These are the ones I have that come to mind:
Neo. Fingernail
Neo. Fireball
Neo. Lila (varigated white and green leaf with a hot pink throat)
about 6 that I purchased at the Baton Rouge Brom. Society this summer
Finger of God (that I have gotten in a trad this summer)
Achem. Fatc....... (listed in my trade list)
I do have one that has thin leaves that grow straigjht upwards. It has small blooms that open around October which are orange and yellow. I have lots of this to trade with. If either of you are interested, just let me know.
Iris,
Do you mist your plants in the winter? If I use the garden water it's so cold. Does a misting system have heated water?
I forgot to include this photo of my Queen's Tears, Billbergia nutans. For some reason, they are beginning to flower now instead of their usual flowering time in my area around early February-March. Maybe the severely cold winter last year got their flowering time cycle confused?
I also have Bromelia balansae that I didn't photograph. It is a completely hardy bromeliad in my climate and flowers around mid-summer with very dramatic tall spires of flowers after the central vase suddenly flushes a deep red. It is one of the most treacherous plants I've ever been around. It has backwards turned "fishhook" barbs that snag and won't let go when pulling an arm or leg out of the plant. Great to plant under window where burglars might be prone to enter or teens may be able to sneak out at night. LOL
plantsforpeg - I also have the fingernail and just recently got a start of N. 'fireball' from our county fair after seeking it for a number of years. The 'fireball' is not cold hardy in my area, so I will keep it in the greenhouse this winter with the orchids. I'm certainly no Bromeliad expert, but it sounds like your bromeliad with the leaves that point straight up may be a Tillandsia? Maybe something like this one? T. kirchoffiana http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/253347/ We have two very abundant native Tillandsia in my area -- Spanish Moss (of course), Tillandsia usneoides, and Ball Moss, T. recurvata. The blooms on both of these are barely noticeable.
Is this the Finger of God that you have? Achmea orlandiana http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/200981/ If so, I would love to arrange a trade, but I always warn everyone up front that I am the world's worst at ever getting around to packaging plants to mail and I ask that no one send me anything until I've fulfilled my part of the swap. LOL
Jeremy
This message was edited Dec 1, 2010 1:41 PM
Oops! Forgot to include the B. nutans photo.
Jeremy
The finger of god I received in a trade this summer. It was solid green when I received it and is still solid green. I'll try to post a picture. I have only one.
The unidentified brom, I feel, is not a Tillandsia since the base of the plant is not similar to the pictue you posted. I have 2 or 3 gallon pots of it planted in soil. It keeps multiplying, but the blooms are scarce. Probably I am not caring for it like I should. I do put osmocote on it occasionally.
I would love to trade with you. Guess I'll have to post pictures for you to look at.
This is the unidentifed Brom that I don't think is a Tillsandi.
Same plant
