One of my fish (one that survived last summer's deadly illnesses) is about 10 " long and up until a few weeks ago hadn't fully recovered from being sick from last year. A few weeks ago it really started to grow (it was also hot for a change in zone 5). Not only did she grow in inches but in girth. I always felt this fish was a female but a few days ago I noticed her swimming style changed to more aggressive butt wiggle and that she really is more girthy than ever. Upon closer look she appears to fattening up in a normal healthy way around the waist. I think she is 2.5 years old only and her growth was stunted by illness last year. I thought she was a little young to be "mature" this way. Do females get girthier many months before they can actually spawn or is it something that occurs rather quickly? Also, I don't have any mature males in my pond yet. What will happen to her if she is, in fact, getting ready to spawn?
Thanks everyone in advance!
What is the possibility of a koi spawn in late August?
I STILL have eggy females that never spawned this year. Thusfar, they seem healthy and AOK., just fat bellied.
Usually the eggs will just dissolve within her and it's not a big deal. That is probably best especially if she just recovered
and it was a long time coming back.
When they spawn it is very stressful for the female and she usually gets banged around quite a bit, no pun intended.
ifound4u
Darleen
Funny Darleen! Thanks for your input both of you!
Linda
Linda
You and I are in similiar zones and I have seen my koi spawn as late as into September. I did have a situation much like yours when we first put in the larger pond. We have the one female that we have had since the beginning and we did lose a number of fish early on to various situations, however we managed to keep our original female. I am taking the long way around in saying that she came into a breeding age, a couple of years before the others and we had no problems.
I know we all followed Snapple's experience last winter with Mama Koi and the problem with the eggs impacted, however, I do believe that to be more the exception than the rule. I agree with Ifound4u that the eggs are more likely to be absorbed.
DH and I also think that due to all the problems that we had early on, that our original female koi's growth has been stunted. She is 8 years old and only about 18" whereas we have other koi that are younger and much larger than this koi. We also have a male koi that is 6-7 years old that is about 14" and he doesn't get any bigger. We were told when we purchased him, that he was a Malaysian koi, so we are not positive, but think that perhaps the different types of koi may also dictate their size.
Carolyn
I am in zone 6 and as well have had them spawn into September, however right around Fathers day
seems to be when they start each year. This year my koi did not spawn at all either. I just figured
it was the crazy weather however I do have a female right now that looks like she might be filling with eggs.
Darleen
I'm sort of hoping along those lines....Water temps and length of day are the primary incentive to spawning. Because our water temps went high very early in the season this year, I think spawning was put on hold. Once the summer calms down a bit (or we get a few hurricane rains, which will chill the water temps) perhaps(?) I may get some spawning... Who knows, I certainly don't need any additional fish, I just need to keep my females healthy.
Because goldfish are far more prolific breeders, I even thought about putting some of my shubunkin and sarassa males in with the koi females, just to see if they would empty them of eggs. Just a thought....
I was always told no that would not work, but I never tried it myself.
I was told koi would only breed with other koi.
No, I've had cross breeding with goldfish and koi before, which was why I separated them. Maybe it's time to put them all back together. Even if they eggs don't get fertilized. Just want to keep the female koi healthy. They will absorb eggs sometimes, but sometimes they also get an internal infection. Im more concerned about their healthy than more fishies!
Carolyn: You hit the nail on the head about my concerns. Snapple's female . . . It seems so tragic! The situation with her fish has made me concerned because I am new to spawning. Anyway, this white female hasn't grown any larger but is a lot more aggressive in the pond during feedings. Probably she figured out she was the larger and should get more food . . .LOL!
BTW: As I learn about each of my individual fish's personality I notice certain patterns. Some (no matter their size) are more food aggressive than others. Some are always skiddish and the last to eat (if they eat anything at all . . .). Some group off into mini groups of 2-3 and go back and forth to the main group and away from the group. I seem to find nearly the same pairings together every night when I look out of my 2nd floor window into the brightly lite pond. Does anyone else spend that much time watching their fish looking for patterns of behavior (or am I the only crazy one )?
You are Absolutely Not Crazy! If you have a Pond it becomes an obsession, we have some of your fish so tame now that they allow us to pick them up out of the water by hand. Most all of them will eat directly from our hands and they are even named.
The ones that you think might not be eating, they do they are just more what I call pickers they are good for the pond
they eat more of the algae and help keep the pond clean.
In 11 years of keeping koi we only had one problem with a females eggs not dissolving inside of her but we also had a autopsy done just to be sure that was what is was (She was my favorite fish) it turned out she also had a tumor in her
stomach they could not say definite what one killed her or the combination of both. We spent over a $1,000.00 trying to
make her better and get her to release the eggs. even paid a specialist to drive from Philla. to my home (2 Hr. drive) to look at her and try and help here.
When we built our pond we put in a sitting area, we sit there daily and do our feedings. On nice days sometimes I will sit out there and just watch them for hours. It's very therapeutic and calming. As well as the fish get used to you people laugh if my DH or myself even go near the pond the fish all go crazy like it's feeding time, they do not do that with everyone just the 2 of us.
They get to be just like any other pet, you just can;t cuddle with them, lol :=))
Linda, you are not crazy. Each fish has a different "personality" as do my frogs. They know me and they know to come to the edge when they hear me coming. It is strange that they know I am coming out the sliding glass door to the deck. They know that when I have food and when I don't. Several of my frogs have learned that I will not harm them and they stay put on their lily pad or lettuce leaf when I am around.
I have been able to get very close for pictures with some of them. I love to watch them swim at night. You are right Linda, they have their "clicks" or group of friends who they play with. No aggressive ones yet all lovers!
I enjoy my pond so much..only wish I had more room for a bigger one.
Total stress reducers! If I could make my entire back yard one big koi pond, I certainly would! We sat out there tonight with a lovely glass of mediocre wine, and just stared into the pond while the sun went down.
Each fish does in fact have it's own personality. Interesting thing happened earlier this summer. I use to have only one pond. When I built the 2nd and 3rd, I split up the fish. I moved a few around this summer again, and 2 that I bought together (probably 3 years ago) ended up in the same pond again. Immediately they found each other and have been traveling the pond as a pair. Could they possibly recognize each other after 2 1/2 - 3 years??
I believe they know one another. I had two fish remaining from last year. Both were sick yet one healed up faster than the other (Bluey is his name) and was released into the pond a few weeks earlier. When I finally got the last one healthy and released her into the pond Bluey swam up very quickly to her as if to welcome her. Bluey is kind of a slow and lazy swimmer. Going fast is not his style. Meeting an old friend- he raced!
Bluey eats slow and is never one to get scared off by the splashes of the other koi. He just watches me and eats, taking his sweet time.
I have always loved how 'social' the koi are. I enjoy their eagerness to meet somebody when a new fish has been introduced to the pond. I have also loved the curiosity they display when it is time to make some type of adjustments to the pond in one form or another. I love how when I look up from whatever work I am doing and find that I have a semi circle of koi in the water trying to see what I am doing - I have always told my husband, the curiosity the koi exhibit is far worse than the curiosity I have seen exhibited by cats...... Another thing that I have always loved is when I come home from work and stand at the edge of the deck and all the koi are swimming at the edge of the pond and they all seem to fall over each other as if to say "Pick me, pick me, I am here! I am here!" and that type of behaviour has always reminded me of puppies.....
No, Linda - you are not crazy. You have just gotten caught up in ponding and koi like the rest of us.......
Carolyn:
Funny that you mentioned that semi-circle formation that the fish make. I really find that interesting too! I didn't realize all koi do that I thought my koi were ex-military . . .LOL!
What I have noticed lately with the change in weather is that the koi behavior has changed. Moving slower, less curious, smaller groups together. Occasionally I will find koi just suspended in one place in the pond by themselves and I worry something is wrong but now I think it's a form of resting for them. I usually see this late in the middle of the night when my insomnia happens. My pond lights are on all night long and they are fun to watch from the second floor window.
Hi, I'm new to this forum and have read all the interesting threads about your koi. It helps me learn how to care for my koi since I don't really know much except what I read on websites but they can be very "general". It's nice to read things more "personal" about the koi. Mothermole asked something about her koi spawning at 2.5 years old. Two of my butterfly koi are 3 years old. I have 3 gold fish in with them that are also 3 years old. What age do these fish usually start to spawn? The rest of my koi are much younger. How can you tell the difference between the babies from the koi and gold fish breeding and the koi to koi breeding? How old are koi before you can tell the sex? Because I have other koi in together should I take the gold fish out so that they will not breed with the koi?
mothermole - when you said "your pond lights" are they the ones you put into the water? I want to get some of those but worry if they will really let you SEE the fish at night. Are they white lights or the different colored lights?
thanks for your help,
Carla
Carla
Koi will start breeding at about 3 years old. I cannot attest to the crossbreeding of koi and goldfish - we removed all of our goldfish some years ago. We did this because the goldfish just breed and breed and breed, whereas the koi breed once or twice a year.
We have had 3 spawnings this year, with different females during each breeding - what I do not know is if it has been a different set of males for each breeding or if it is all of the males in the pond and that they can breed more than once......
They say that you can tell the males from the females by their shape. The males are supposed to be more torpedo shaped and the females are supposed to have bodies that are more rounded. I will tell you that after 8 years of ponding and 'guessing' that one is a female or one is a male - that I have been truly surprised when I have seen them spawning to see which are the females and which are the males.....
We too have the pond lights in the bottom of the pond and they do let you see the fish at night. It is a really nice effect when you are sitting out by the pond on a sultry summer night. We don't keep ours on all the time though. But, I can just imagine having insomnia and watching the fish at night - I know the fish to be very calming day or night........
Hi everyone! I was down and out (and off the computer) a few days due to a minor surgery. Everything fine here.
To Scarediecat:
My pond light: Well, my first set of lights were the "egg lites" and I was not happy with them-not enough light for my pond. Next we put in the largest wattage lights in the pond-huge difference! I use the white lights because I am probably too conservative and boring to go with colors. I really want to see my fish at night and these new lights do the trick. I have also added brighter bulbs to my outdoor (out of water) landscape lights as they burn out. The original system wasn't bright enough. I live in a dark moonlight area with no light pollution. If I were to walk outside without a light it would be difficult to see 10 feet in front of myself. Light are on sale at many places this time of year. Check online. That Vet online company "Fosters and _______" ? had them on sale. Can't recall their name at the moment.
Regarding koi-three years of age to spawn. In addition to what Carolyn said about telling their sex another way is to feel behind the gills during spawning. Rough area=male Smooth slime coated area=female. A little Japanese trick from my supplier but can only be determined during a spawn (which is a drag the first year but after that all is good). When koi cross spawn with non koi there aren't any barbs by their mouths. Someone here on this site knew a lot about that-if it wasn't Carolyn it might have been Snapple. All resulting cross spawned fish are not able to reproduce which might be good in ponds that are overcrowed.
Oh Linda - I hope you are feeling better. Surgery is never any fun. I hope you are recouperating by your pond.....
Carolyn
TY Carolyn: It was a rough first few days but I am good now. Finally got the catheter out today and immediately went outside to the garden and pond and tried to work a little. Motivation is great for body rehab . . . LOL! I noticed my dh fixed my fishing line around the pond (my puppy yanked it down a month ago). Apparently a Great Blue Heron came a calling when I was down and out in the hospital (nasty birds telling one another my personal health story . . .). My little Pup-Pup puppy (nearly a year old now) was going crazy barking in the house and it made my husband come running. He decided to let the little dog out to scare away the bird (when I heard this story I didn't think that was a good idea as the birds are way bigger than him and could pierce him and eat him as a Kabob on the grill . . .). That little terrier mix went after the bird without hesitation and scared it away. What a scaredicat (not the member here on Daves . . .LOL!). He must've figured that if I am constantly yelling at him to stay away and out of the pond that he better keep the bird out as well.
I dare not say anything to my husband but that heron would not have made it into water and stayed above it. The pond goes straight down to about 5-6 feet in the center-not rock and a tiny shelf. No heron would enjoy or coup with that. Heck I can't even get into the pond now either!
Linda - glad you are feeling better. I have a mental image of Pup-pup running after that heron. Hopefully that heron will remember and never come back.
Funny but two days ago the heron was back briefly-my 7 year old son and Pup-Pup went after him this time . . .
Sounds like you have them both trained. When do the herons go South?
I don't know when they "vacation" but I did happen to see a Great Blue Heron dead on the main road today. I usually try not to react to dead animals (although I am a terrible softie . . .). This is the first time I saw road kill and didn't feel anything emotional or sad but had a more "one less of them" feeling . . . Then I suffered guilt . . .
"Then I suffered guilt"..... Linda - too funny.
I have to tell you, last Spring, dh and I were standing on the upper deck looking down on the pond. We saw a heron fly from our neighbors side yard into our yard making a 'B' line towards our pond. The heron did not see dh and I until he was almost on top of us. The look that crossed that bird's face was rich - you could see "OMG!!!" cross that birds face before he was able to change course and fly off..... I will never forget the look on that birds' face!!!
This morning I went out to feed my koi. I can stand on my back deck and just throw the food down to them. Over the past few months (since I put them in the new pond with the good filter that keeps the water clear) they have met me each morning. This morning they were ALL crammed into the large bell that I keep in the pond for them to get into if need be. They wouldn't come out even when I thru the feed in. Thinks something tried to get them. Or is this normal for koi? I didn't see anything in the pond on closer inspection. Couldn't find anything that looked disturbed around the pond either.
Carla
I do think something scared your fish. Normally, they act like puppies and come and great you - as you said. For the fish to remain at the bottom in hiding, I do think something tried to get them. It is good that you have something for them to hide in. I rely heavily (probably too heavily) on my lilypad coverage to hide my fish, which essentially leaves them vulnerable early and late in the season.
Have you been able to count them and see if they all there? Have you inspected them? I get down on the lower deck on my stomach and hang over into the pond with my elbows on the very edge of the deck. I do this at least once a week - probably more in the early Spring when we are starting up. From time to time I will feed them by hand, so they are very eager to come over to the side of the pond when I do this. This lets me get a close up look at each and everyone of my fish.
Let us know how your fish are...
Yep....that's usually the first sign that something visited your pond. Koi will usually protect themselves by going into a secluded place as deep and far as they can get... It may take a day or 2 to lure them back out, but you really don't want them to lose that protective instinct anyway!
Just got a new computer so I'm back on line again!! I did get to count them and all are there. They stayed close to their bell for another day but then started coming out again. I have not looked at them very close but I will tomorrow. A new tom cat has started hanging around but I don't think he could do much to scare them unless they came too close to the top of the water. I've been watching to see if something is coming up at night and haven't seen anything unusual. Things seem to be back to normal but it does make you worry doesn't it.
I just added a few more fish to my pond (very small young ones-5 in total I think . . .My 7 year old picked them out). Usually new fish in the pond causes a "party-like" atmosphere with the new and the existing koi doing a "meet and greet" upon entry. None of that occurred this time and I can't seem to find any of the new fish in the pond. Occasionally I can't find some of the existing fish all day long and then the next day I find them. It's not that big of a pond and usually all the fish are ready willing and able to eat heartily but something has changed in their dynamic. Is it the weather (colder here) or the new fish or something entirely different??????
Hmmmmmmm . . .
Linda
the colder weather will affect your fish, however you should still see them. They will typically appear to be slower and not so much interested in food or the as much excitement when somebody walks up to the edge of the pond. That dreaded heron may have scared your fish again.
As far as new fish are concerned, I have had them hide for a week or more. To the point where I have wondered if they were still in the pond....and yes, I count noses from time to time as well. Sometimes with my plants or waterlilies it is easy to miss someone. Usually, I will find that fish if I 'go looking'. If you were visited by a heron though, your fish might have a good hiding place. My understanding is that the herons will go after the smaller fish (this is how I lost one of the nicest batch of small fry I had last year) and they will
'spear' the larger fish.
Keep us posted -
I have netting around my pond to stop herons. Maybe they are just so little that they are hiding. It's hard to keep track of all the fish. Sometimes I think someone is missing and then a few days later they are swimming around.