An Update and some Camera Setting Questions

After a long time of not seeing this lonely juvenile Red-tailed Hawk, he finally made an appearance for a few minutes in the air space over my home. Here is the previous thread about him.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1019031/

He looks great and I was so happy to see him! The skies were completely overcast with thick whitish clouds and a lot of dark clouds too. Since there were the dark clouds around I decided to pull the shutter speed down to 1/800 just in case he flew in front of the dark clouds. The focal length was 450-500mm with the ISO at 400 and the AV at f 9.

Here is my question: This season we have had a LOT of these thick white clouds around and normally I would think to go with a higher shutter speed like 1250. Am I correct in assuming the shutter speed should be higher with these white clouds as the background? Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Now back to the hawk.

I was trying to get shots of him in different positions.

...

BTW, another Red-tailed Hawk (an adult) has come into the area recently so at least there are others like him around now.

A funny thing that is occurring is that the Blue Jay's are imitating his mournful calls exactly and it gets very confusing as to where he is located.

A different wing position.

,,,

I love raptors.

On his way out. This photo is not cropped. Looking forward to hearing your comments about the camera settings. Have a good day! ^_^

- Whatever you are doing keep doing it, those pics are great! ☺


This message was edited Aug 14, 2009 9:29 AM

Nice series of shots.
In general I think that the pictures are a tad overexposed so yes a higher shutter speed or lower ISO* would be recommended. Overcast skies gives more uniform lighting however the white background color does have a bit of a negative impact since it blends with the light feather colors of the bird.

*lower ISO should help reduce artifacting somwhat since you'd to crop significantly (where is the additional focal length when you need it ? :) )

Thank you very much!

I'm with WaterCan, your photos are beautiful.

Great pictures!

One tip I learned from a fellow shooter: Shoot those BIF shots in the manual mode which you are according to the EXIF data. First take a meter reading off of some green grass or trees leaves (not pine trees they are too dark) nearby in the same light that you are shooting and take a test shot; if it looks like what you see (i.e. your eyes) then leave it at that setting, if not either lower or raise the shutter speed, ISO, or aperture etc. and take another test shot. Personally, I'd just work with the shutter speed and leave the ISO and aperture at 400 and f8 or whatever you like shooting with. Now as long as the birds are in the same light your shots will come out way better and have consistent exposures when shooting to the sky than using any of the auto modes - maintain the setting no matter what the meter says. Again as long as the bird is in the same light you will be fine. Now if the light changes you will have to re-meter. It sounds tedious but it becomes 2nd nature after awhile. Plus it beats those underexposed silhouette type shots any day. Whenever shooting UP to the sky or just Upward period, I found myself wanting to shoot using the the above procedures. But if shooting eye level or downward, then it's Av mode all the way. I resisted for a long time until recently when I was shooting the Ospreys in flight.

Another tip: If you do not want to shoot as stated above then at least shoot in the raw and not jpeg that way you have all the data and can edit those underexposed or overexposed shots to very nice quality shots.

Note: Have you notice when using Av mode and shooting to the sky it sometimes gives a silhouette or seem very underexposed or overexposed - well this procedures has solved that problem for me.

What I found is that when shooting BIF in sunny days I get consistent shots with f8, 1/800, ISO 400 (I have a chart I got from a site and can provide to you if you want it) and if the sun goes behind the cloud I just lower the shutter to 1/640 or 1/500 (eventually you will know the range of the light you are in) and be able to adjust accordingly. I have more luck with f8 than f5.6 as it gives more room for focus errors, at least in my experience.

Btw, your shots are nice

Just One Man's Opinion

This message was edited Aug 15, 2009 9:10 AM

This message was edited Aug 15, 2009 1:20 PM

Oh Btw Pelletory is Cape May good in the fall because it's on my list of sites to visit? Fall is the earliest I can visit.

Thanks

Oh my, my, my.... pelletory those are incredible pictures!!! Those are perfect pictures! I love every one of them. I wish that I could get a picture of one like that... I love them in flight! I love the one you took with the different wing position. How incredible, I'm so excited for you! Superb Job!!

oh... I'm so jealous! Those are such great pictures!

Nice photos, pelle. I tend to agree with pretty much what everyone has said. I wish it were easy but it isn't (for me). Recently, I have been using aperture priority most of the time. Otherwise, I use the Manual mode. I try to overcome my shortcomings by experimenting a lot with different settings. One thing for sure, birds-in-flight require a higher shutter speed.

For example, with the attached photo shot earlier this week, my settings at 500mm were: Aperture priority, f-stop of F/8, ISO at 800. As a result, the shutter speed automatically adjusted to 1/5000 of a second. As you already know, different combinations will achieve similar results. I would like to shoot raw format but the size of the files are so huge. But being able to post-process your photos is the answer to many of the complications created by lighting. For now, I will continue to shoot JPEG. I don't know for sure how much white balance may come into play. Sometimes, I take it off of Auto-white balance and set it manually for the current lighting conditions.

Take one of your photos and do a little post-processing on it, i.e. sharpening, darken a little, etc. See if it improves to your eyes and liking. I will seldom get better photos than you have against a bright white sky. It almost becomes like shooting black and white.

Great to hear the hawk is doing good. I think your photos are great and Iw ish I could dome of raprors that good. But I do understand what your are wanting. Beyond my ability help ya tho!! LOL Hope some of the suggestions help you and let us see the results.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate your suggestions!

Hi Linth, I had done editing with software but it didn't seem to make much difference. Thanks for your advice.

Hi Met, Yes Cape May is considered in the Top Ten places for birding in the US. Spring and Fall are of course the best times but there is never a lack of birds there.

I'll be driving down after work tomorrow to go on the walk "Birding the Meadows" that I've been on before. Immediately after I'll go on the"Back Bay Birding by Boat" program.

http://www.birdcapemay.org/programs.php

Then on Tuesday before sunrise starts a "Songbird Morning Flight Project" at Higbee Beach in Cape May. It is a great place for seeing Warblers and the like. Here is a little write up taken from that page.

Four hours beginning at sunrise every day.

Migrant songbirds move past the northwest corner of Cape Island every morning in the fall. The flight can end abruptly two hours after sunrise or continue into the afternoon. CMBO researchers document this flight. Peak days tally tens of thousands of birds! Join other observers at the small observation tower just south of the jetty parking area at Higbee Beach.

Note: An interpretive naturalist is stationed here and a formal program offered every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday in September and October (except October 23-25) from 8:00 to 8:30 a.m. Turn right onto the unpaved road at the west end of New England Road to access the viewing tower.


Here is the birding boat tours:

www.birdcapemay.org/boat.php

There are other boats that do this but these are the ones from the Cape May Bird Observatory site. Met, If you need any help let me know and I'll do all I can for you. On that first link you can change the month to Sept. or Oct. to see what is going on.

Thanks again everyone!! ^_^

Beautiful shots Pelle...one of these days I will seriously attempt some BIF!

Thanks for the info Pelletory.

Btw do you do mainly the guided tours or do you go solo - which is best?

I will take you up on your offer when I plan my visit. Can you provide some basic information, such as places to stay around Cape May, best spots to tour etc.

Thanks

This message was edited Aug 17, 2009 9:36 AM

Pelletory, I attached a couple of sites that provide tips for BIF that we all can probably use. I am still learning myself but try and practice as often as I can. After reading you will see that there are different schools of thought but one constant - high shutter speeds - so it becomes somewhat a trial and error and practice practice and more practice. Just hoping to help others that may be interested in BIF too.

PS. I forgot to state that the metering mode plays a role too (i.e. evaluative, spot metering etc.)

http://www.digicamhelp.com/how-to/nature/flight/
http://www.evergladesphotosociety.org/articles/flightpart01.html
http://www.takegreatpictures.com/birds_in_flight.fci (see tip #5)
http://robmckayphotography.com/wildlife-photography-canada/birds-in-flight-action-photography-tips (see exposure mode section & aperture settings section)



This message was edited Aug 17, 2009 4:40 PM

This message was edited Aug 17, 2009 5:01 PM

Thanks for the additional links, Met. One should be able to draw some reasonable consensus from reading these links. And, for what it is worth, I have been using spot metering exclusively when I am photographing in-flight birds. Nothing beats being close to your subject but the closer you are, the more difficult it becomes to track the bird in the viewfinder. But, as you stated, nothing beats practice and as one of the links stated, a good place to start is where sea gulls hang out. Practice is inexpensive these days ......

Hi, I'm sorry but I just got back from the shore. Hello Met, I do both solo and guided but I prefer the guided because there are so many "expert eyes" watching. I think there were at least 6 CMBO naturalist's etc. on the walk including experts Pete Dunne and Don Freiday.

Here is the list from yesterday's walk copied from the CMBO website.

Highlights at the South Cape May Meadows/TNC Cape May Migratory Bird Refuge included a hunting juvenile Cooper's Hawk, Caspian Tern, an adult Prairie Warbler, and the usual cast of interesting characters, all totalled 70 species today. The Least Bittern flew over the center pool, and later was heard calling - the krik-krik-krik call.

Location: South Cape May Meadows
Observation date: 8/17/09
Number of species: 70

Canada Goose 75
Mute Swan 25
Wood Duck 3
Gadwall 10 hen with well feathered young
Mallard 66 clicked by Janet Crawford
Double-crested Cormorant 2
Least Bittern 1
Great Blue Heron 1 juv
Great Egret 5
Snowy Egret 5
Green Heron 2
Black-crowned Night-Heron 2
Glossy Ibis 10
Osprey 5
Cooper's Hawk 1 juv
Common Moorhen 1
Semipalmated Plover 3
Killdeer 2
American Oystercatcher 2
Spotted Sandpiper 3
Greater Yellowlegs 3
Lesser Yellowlegs 10
Ruddy Turnstone 1
Sanderling 75
Semipalmated Sandpiper 2
Least Sandpiper 15
Pectoral Sandpiper 1
Laughing Gull 100
Ring-billed Gull 10
Herring Gull 40
Lesser Black-backed Gull 1
Great Black-backed Gull 40
Least Tern 10
Caspian Tern 1
Common Tern 70
Forster's Tern 25
Royal Tern 15
Black Skimmer 50
Rock Pigeon 10
Mourning Dove 10
Chimney Swift 10
Ruby-throated Hummingbird 5
Red-bellied Woodpecker 1
Eastern Kingbird 5
American Crow 2
Fish Crow 10
Purple Martin 100
Tree Swallow 300
Northern Rough-winged Swallow 20
Barn Swallow 35
Carolina Chickadee 1
Carolina Wren 3
House Wren 1
Marsh Wren 2
American Robin 5
Gray Catbird 1
Northern Mockingbird 1
Brown Thrasher 1
European Starling 10
Cedar Waxwing 20
Yellow Warbler 1
Prairie Warbler 1
Northern Cardinal 2
Indigo Bunting 1
Bobolink 37
Red-winged Blackbird 100
Baltimore Oriole 1
House Finch 10
American Goldfinch 15
House Sparrow 10

It was a very hot day and I did not take the camera on the walk but it was a good time. Loads of dolphin right off the beach too. :-) Right after this walk I went on the bird watching boat with my camera.

It was hot today, pelle !!! This list, as well as your previous list, included 70 species or above. That's a nice day of birding. I have never gone on a "guided" bird walk but to me one beneficial aspect is that you get to see the best places to bird by yourself, if you wish. Right now, if I went to Cape May, I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to start.

The 2009 World Series of Birding was held back in May, in Cape May, NJ, and the winning contingent recorded 229 species. They do a lot of field work before the big day so they know where they are going to hopefully see a particular specie.

Serious birders tend to include species that they hear as well as those that they see. I'm not that good. I'm not sure sometimes even with a photo. Out of curiosity, of the birds that YOU saw today, what percentage of them could you have gotten a decent photograph ?

Anyway, congratulations pelle. I'm glad you are getting a chance to visit Cape May. Be sure to get back there in the Fall, and again in the Spring. Looking forward to some photos of your two trips.

Hi Linth, Yes they do a lot of "Pishing" (imitating bird calls) mainly Pete and Don and they have had birds come into view by doing that. Many times they hear the birds before seeing them and of course know what they are before their in sight.

Hmm, hard to say how many with my lens there are definitely some I wouldn't be able to get because of distance and the size of the bird. Another problem is I hang somewhere in the middle of the pack trying to stay sort of close to Pete or Don. Being a short person I miss a lot with a camera due to the "shortness factor". I always try to make sure I see the bird with my eyes (or binoculars first).

Another cool thing is they have are great binoculars they'll lend you for the walk. Last time I had a beautiful pair of Leica's and this week a great pair of Swarovski binoculars. It's so nice to be able to have the chance to use these wonderful tools! The 6 or more experts always have powerful scopes with them on tripods that they invite everyone to look through when a bird is perched, on the water or walking around.

One of the guys along with pointing out birds also points out and names all the Butterflies and other things there are around. They are all very nice people.

Cape May is a small place and if you go to the State Park or the Cape May Bird Observatory website all the good places are listed, in fact here is the page for maps, that along w/ checklist.

http://www.birdcapemay.org/checklist.shtml

Thanks Linth; I plan on going there as much as possible through November.

Here is another map. You can see how close just 3 of the place's are to each other.

http://www.capemaytimes.com/birds/birding-map.htm

pelle, thank you for the links. I'll be sure to bookmark them. Have you ever visited Brigantine, near Smithville ?. It's now known as the Edwin Forsythe NWR. I was there many, many yeas ago. They have an eight mile drive through wetlands that could prove interesting. That's sort of my type of birding. I'm no longer into long walks or deep into the woods trekking since I contracted Lyme disease last summer. I've sort of become paranoid about deer ticks.

Last question .....Did the guides repeat your first trip or did they go to other places ?

Thanks.

Hey Pelletory and Lith have you heard of Hawk Mountain - it's located in PA. It seems like an interesting place - a place I think I'd like to visit. Here's the link. They have bed and breakfast (I've never been to one) and may be good for me and the ole' lady and kid (can have my cake and eat it too).

http://www.hawkmountain.org/

Yep I've heard of Hawk Mountain and knew a few people in the past that had been there.

Met, I was there about 30 years ago. I haven't been back. Why ? Just a matter of individual preference. If you are going to go there strictly for birding and/or the thrill of observing the hawks soaring in the high sky as they take advantage of the wind currents, it's a great place to visit during migratory season. If you are going there to photograph hawks, I haven't seen a lot of Hawk photos taken from Hawk Mountain.

If you choose to go there, you may want to also visit the Middle Creek Wildlife Management area near Kleinfeltersville, PA. It's only about 35 miles from Hawk Mountain. It is one of the most popular places to visit in late February, early March, as the place is filled with upwards to 80,000 migrating Snow Geese. I haven't been there for a while but as I recall they have a very nice visitor center. Here are two links providing additional information.

http://www.fieldtrip.com/pa/77331512.htm

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=487&q=161143.

That's an impressive list, Pelle.

Methodical, thanks for those links. Really useful information.

I thought I post the link that I referred to in my initial post. You'll may have heard of the Sunny 16 rule. The link provides good info on it and should provide some help for applying shutter speeds when using the manual mode. I have it as a cheat sheet


http://www.photomigrations.com/articles/0403200.htm

Thanks Met!