I'm interested in learning more about which white varieties do best. I have Henryi and also Candida and I like them both--Candida has produced more blooms, but both have been fast growers. I plan to purchase a few more whites and would like to hear about your favorites. I'm considering G2's and G3's.
I love white as a contrast to darker colors, so I'm considering pairing a white with a purple or red. It will be in the sun. I don't like my choice of pairing Kermasina with Henryi, because one is very small and one is large. But, they didn't bloom at the same time either. Henryi, although a G2, can be pruned either way, and they have separate collars, so that has not been a problem.
Is there an early, large flowering white that would look good with Rebecca? When I can get another Tie Dye, I may put it with a white as well.
I tried to buy Guernsey Cream recently, but it was not available. Of course, nothing much is available right now. I'd love to hear your suggestions.
What is your favorite white clem?
guernsey blooms so early here it is usually not a companion with anything except the green climbing hydrangeas i have it growing on in a few places.
my best white for late blooms, long lasting and large is m. le coultre. this is frequently sold as marie boiselotte. check out both on COTW. the coultre has a tell tale characteristic, in that as the blooms open they are pure white with a light yellow stamen and anther grouping. as the bloom matures the tips of the anthers get darker, almost a black tip on the anther. subtle but unmistakeable.
this is a great white, actually my best performing white. i also have as large flowered white, jackmanii alba, which is good for the collection but i would not make a feature display of it (to inconsistent in early years), smaller flowered alba luxurians, (this one as so many interesting characteristics i like it alone or with another white only) and huldine , which is getting good reviews from folks that has mediium size white blooms.
off top of head a few thoughts here. pope jpII is a pale pastel that looks like an opalescent white depending on light , shade and how long the bloom has been on the vine. and if you do well with henrii you might find miss bates and miss bateman to do well for you.
Sharkey,
I just ordered Maria Cornelia based on the last photograph of the first post.
I love it that it's a viticella. Viticellas should do well for your warm climate, right?
Brushwood has MC
http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/small-flowered-clematis-4/clematis-maria-cornelia-338.html
I also ordered Dominika, which doesn't have anything to do with your question, nor is it white, but I'm excited and wanted to share.... lol
jj, love dominika. i had a good first year with it. you will like it very much.
i have maria cornelia, just got it in ground in may. the plant reminds me of pagoda, evnn tho they are different groups. the flowers are small on maria cornelia, but i think it will be a superstar based on how it has started out. i saw them more as a pale creamy color not really true white, but i know first flowers can be misleading.
sharkey re whites there is a small flowered white that is bushy and blooms forever, called pamela. i have always called it pamela recta, but just learned it is really called pamela. it is a cross between terniflora and recta. nice plant, not overly vigorous like terniflora, nor as huge as species recta, it is smaller, bushy. long bloom period with pretty small white flower.
i have it in two places, i think you might like it.
CG, I'm hoping that Dominika doesn't start blooming until July, like stated. I need to have more clems blooming well in July. I had to get more daylilies this year to add color to the garden, but the garden still seems so bare without a riot of clems blooming. I know it's virtually impossible to have a garden look as good in July as it does in June, but there is a lot I can do to make the July garden better. I don't know what I'd do without daylilies.
Next year, I have to focus on the August garden. I have no idea what to do about that.
Dahlias!
julia, you can have clems blooming in july and august if you delay bloom time by pruning the type 3's back pretty hard, maybe leave a foot or two , before the initial flower bud formation starts. this sets the plant back and it delays the blooms for a month. it is important to feed when you do the season delay prune and keep up deep watering so that conditions are optimal.
i have done this. other examples of this are when june pre bloom damage causes a complete knock down, such as dawnLL's freak hail storm. her season gets off to a later start than mine, so when she had the hail knock down she was not yet in bloom. all her clems are in peak bloom right now.
the other thing you can do is on a mature, many stemmed clem take some of the vines down to ground level or one leaf axil from the ground, pre flower bud set, these usually start new vines which will bloom later. in this case important to dead as best you can on the ones you let bloom "a natural".
as for blooms right now, i put out impatiens at the base of the clems, they are adding a nice touch of low flowers to the garden. i pulled some of them out and gave them away for re-planting last week as i had put them too close to the clems and it bothered me not seeing the bases of the clems. but they really add a lot. limelight hydrangeas are in peak peak form right now, and an annual i do from seed "cleome" looks good right beside and behind some clems. some climbing roses are blooming and phlox is in full bloom.
clems blooming right now for the first time this season are my angel, intricata harry smith, tangitica, mongolian gold, and paul farges. terniflora has not started. these species types always bloom later than the type 1 and 2 and vitacellas.
most of the tpe 3's i got agressive with mid july are up anywhere from 1 to 8 inches, mulitple stems. and i put in some new vitacellas (4 more etoile violettes after my trip out west) mid july and they are anywhere from 12 inches to 3 feet, so i am hoping for a good sept here with many clems in bloom.
i understand where you are coming from. this year i wanted as many clems as possible blooming mid june as i had some garden tours, so i did not do any of this delay tactic, so i feel the void you are talking about but next year i will do do delaying tactics to bridge the void and gap between first round and second round blooms.
pirl, dahlias are a great idea. they are always a knock out if you can keep the bugs at bay!
it is 90 already here today, our first humid, heat-wave weather of the season. i was outside top dressing some clems and watering and had to quit. just too much for me. maybe i will settle in for some ptouch label making!
Pirl, I don't know much about Dahlias, except I have to lift them before winter. They are beautiful, though. I'll have to include Dahlias when I'm researching during the dead of winter. Thanks for the tip.
We have to lift them here as well. This one is Bodacious - quite large.
jj, they are easy to remove the tubers in the fall and store. i had some a few years back and just stored them in garage kind of temp in brown paper bags in wood chips all winter. and then started them out in post in march or april to get a jump on things.
most of them need staking, at least mine did , but other than that , no trouble.
I also love dahlias. I plant some from seed each yr started in the house. They germinate faster than anything I've ever grown from seed. Most actually come back the next spring. When I started working the flower beds early spring, I noticed that they had formed large tubers which did not freeze. I don't plant anything I have to dig up and store, like caladiums. As far as something that keeps blooming here all summer and keeps looking neat, my pentas are very reliable. I'm thinking of using them next yr to provide shade for some of my clems. They are the only annuals or perennials in my garden that don't get overgrown and have to be pruned. They are available in red, pink, and white.
As far as the white clems, I absolutely love the Maria Cornelia. It will be hard not to order one or two. We just used a chain and pulled two 30-yr old shrubs up in the front yard and the third one will not budge. I may just leave it and plant a white clem to climb through it. It is on the west side, very hot and sunny. Would this be a good choice for that purpose? Maria is SO pretty! Julia, have you already received yours? If so, what kind of roots did it have?
But, I keep thinking of the photo Guru posted in May of her totem with Guernsey Cream. That one is also gorgeous, but not available until next spring from all of the sources I have tried. Debbie's site says that Alba Luxurians will be available in the fall. I also like this one.
I found one called Mevrouw le Coultre on COTW. Is this the other one you are referring to, Guru? It says it is a G2. It is beautiful as well. It may be harder to locate. Maybe I could put both a G2 and a G3 with the shrub so that I might have blooms early as well as late? Just a thought.
After I wrote this thread, I realized that I also have two Huldine liners, one planted last spring. So far, they are not performing as I had hoped. They have a lot of length, but not much as far as blooms. Maybe that will change.
Have any of you had any luck with John Huxtable?
Thank you so much for these great suggestions! Please tell me what you think of my shrub idea.
CG - In the garage? I thought dahlia tubers needed to be stored in a cool,dry place. I had gotten some years ago and wintered the tubers in the root cellar in the basement. By spring they were moldy and shriveled up. Shows you how little I know.
We're getting the heat and humidity, too, and we've finally been getting decent amounts of rain. I managed to work outside yesterday for 3 hours with a few breaks in between. It was mostly cloudy, so it wasn't too bad. Got a lot of little things done, so it felt like I accomplished a lot.
The clems - I'm still tossing around some ideas. I might put a second row in front of the first row along the fence. The second row would be the ones I cut back for later bloom. I goofed last year placing the raised beds the hubby built for me. One is only about 2 feet in front of the clems, which doesn't leave any room to plant other things. The plan is to rearrange the raised beds, which means removing more lawn. I love the idea of less lawn, and more planting space, but removing sod is not my favorite garden project. We have no where to dump it in the yard, so it has to be taken away.
I like the idea of using tall annuals, too, so I'm undecided at this point.
Sharkey, I haven't received my clems yet. They are not shipping until early September. I know, the waiting it hard, but I was surprised to find it this time of year. I have never heard of a single complaint about Brushwood. I don't think his plants are quite as grown out as SSVs but they still have good root systems and are healthy plants. Plus, you can't beat his shipping price.
I love Huldine. Mine has been in the ground only 2 years, so I can't say a lot about it, except that mine didn't do much at all the first year. I bought mine in a gallon pot, but I don't think it was fully rooted. This year it really took off. One thing I would do with Huldine is to make sure you pinch is back a couple of times in spring, unless you are growing it on a huge support.
About the shrub.... If I didn't want a shrub, I'd dig it out. Yes, it's a lot of work. but it can be made easier using a reciprocating saw to cut the roots. You could also call a landscaper and ask what they would charge to get rid of it. However, if you think it looks good, then I wouldn't hesitate to plant a clem or 3 in it, depending on the size of the shrubs and clems. Clems and shrubs belong together :)
Yes, I agree. Brushwood's plants are the next best thing after SSV and Joy Creek from my experience. They certainly aren't as mature, but good roots and healthy. I also like the shipping cost. They only had one Maria Cornelia left, but I ordered it.
As far as the shrub, the leaves on this one have a pretty gloss to them, but it has been there 30 yrs and is just overgrown. It's in the front center of the house and I plan to put a climbing Don Juan rose there. But, the verdict is still out on this one. I DO think it would be pretty to have a lot of white clem blooms on it. Not sure if I would be able to dig a hole for the clems around all of those large old roots.
This fall I plan to completely re-do the front. The other two shrubs that we managed to pull up were really ugly. We still have to finish digging out the roots before I can plant my two knockout tree roses there. (I think I have too many projects going on at the same time.)
Can you believe September is almost here? I fantasize about having cooler weather! This has been a tough summer.
agree with virtually everything posted here. what a love fest. my huldine is taking some time to establish. i feel maria cornelia will too, but it is off to a nice start. by take some time i mean, 3 years to 5 ft and huge.
jj, yes roots in wood chips in garage did fine. dahlia and caladium.
i have stopped digging sod out vs killing it with landscape mat and or woodchips.
this weekend hubbie was cleaning gutters and that led to crabbiness about climbing hydrangea near gutters and that led to a big climbing hydrangea cut back and some type 3 clems also taking a hit. gggrrrrrr. i have to rethink dtuff too close to the house.
when he asked me if the arch the big ville de yon is on can be moved, as one side of it is near a gutter, i drew the line. my response, "anything can be moved but nothing connected to this clem can be moved till next march" argument over.
the gutter trellises would never get past this guy. won't even go there.
we were like little kids tussling over toys. but i understand his point. and my point!
yesterday was so hot.
i went out early thing morning and dug up the omoshiro and parasol embryos from heronswood. took them out of the decorative containers where they had sat like lumps for months and put them in a grittier soil in 3 gallon pots in the triage area. the roots had lengthened quite a bit. they were the smallest bare roots i have ever planted. they will do better in the new set up. i am not giving up on them.
then took a shower and flew to nyc to work fora few days.
Guru, I can't help but laugh because I can identify with that. My hubbie returned about an hr ago from a 3-day gulf fishing trip and I was so glad to see him until he said, "Have you been having fun?" and "the heat index is supposed to be 106 today." I think that was to be interpreted as "it's too hot for me to help you outside today even though I've been in the sun fishing for 3 days." I asked if he didn't get that backwards. I'm supposed to ask if HE had fun. I didn't get my nickname "Sharkey" because I'm dangerous. I actually like to fish too. I've been in the sun the last several days digging up roses I didn't like, mixing soil, fertilizing and weeding peppers, painting pyramids for clems, and on and on. Yes, I am happy when I'm in my own little world out there and see the results of what I have done. Good ole "fun in the Florida sun." :)
I hope you have a great trip.
BTW, I LOVE that VDL that I've seen in your photos. Please don't ruin it. One of my goals is to have a VDL display like that one day.
thanks sharkey. that vdl is going nowhere, but i am open to replacing the arch with a different structure.hopefuuly the gutter maintence phase is short lived. but it did make me rethink how to keep that from happening in future by taking it easy in range of a gutter. that is a RED ZONE if you will!
if he ever gets to the gutters in another area there is a 8 yr old joesphine...also on climbing hydrangea. oh well, will cross that bridge.....
the gutter phase doe snot usually last too long.
wow you guys have some heat down there. nyc is hotter than hello today. waaay too hot.
Too hot two hours east of the city and surrounded by water, too! It's 87 now but was up to 90, for the first time this year, earlier today.
well, with all the great weather we have had pirl, in central ohio where my garden is (sounds like for you too in Southold) and here in nyc, i guess this is expected. but still unpleasant. hope we don't have a lot of it coming. clems are amazing. wish i did as well with a deep watering as they do. city is steaming.
Tomorrow won't be a great improvement as the forecast is just for two degrees cooler. I'll stay in the AC.
Sharkey, I can't believe that September is just around the corner. I have many clem moves to make. The soil is soft again after all the rain and now I'm eager to get started. I've been reading Ray Evison's newest book "Clematis for Small Spaces", so of course my spring wish list is growing. That, combined with the idea of using 4x4 posts wrapped in chicken wire has my mind reeling with ideas.
CG and Sharkey - the husband stuff is funny. They are always good for a laugh. Last night my husband went outside to dust a yellow jacket nest in long pants, a hoodie, gloves, face mask and goggles. One of our neighbors, alarmed by seeing someone hunched down by our window, came out of her house yelling at him demanding to know what he was doing by our window. I was in the house, so I couldn't hear what was being said. All I could see was the hubby frantically trying to get off the goggles and face mask and a very stern look on the neighbor's face. I think my husband was more frightened by her approach than getting stung at that point. I'm going to bake some cookies for the neighbors as an apology for scaring them, but also in appreciation for keeping an eye out for us.
I hope that keyboards can take a little spewed coffee - that is so funny I'm afraid I lost it. I can just see your poor husband trying to disrobe to keep from getting broomed to death!!
Edited to add: I'm writing down all these names for white clematis. For some reason, they seem to catch my eye more than others. Probably because with my shade, white flowers just stand out better.
This message was edited Aug 11, 2009 8:14 AM
Julia, this makes two consecutive mornings that I have started my day out with a really good laugh. Right now I still have tears on my cheek from laughing so hard!!! Dathen, as long as the coffee didn't have a lot of sugar in it, the keyboard is probably fine.
This husband stuff is SO entertaining (especially since it's true) that maybe we should start a "hubbie in the garden" thread. It would be done with humor, but lots of love, of course. What would we do without them? I love this story! Your hubbie is lucky someone didn't call the cops or attack him thinking he was the bad guy.
Dathan, I agree about the white clems. When my first Candida and Henryi opened, I loved it. There is something beautiful about the contrast they give to the other colors in the garden. Have any of you grown Wada's Primrose? I recently acquired a couple from a local nursery that were in bad shape at a real bargain and I'm nursing them back to health. Brushwood's site describes it as a "moderately light grower." Does this just mean it's going to take a while to mature?
Julia, I haven't bought any clematis books yet. If I were going to buy ONE book, which one would you recommend. Maybe I should start a new thread on that topic. I'm especially needing advice on what makes good pairs. I'm getting a lot of holes ready for fall planting and have my clems in nursery pots. I just haven't decided yet what to pair and where to put them. That's the fun part. I'm still trying to decide what G2 pink would look look with HF Young, which is a beautiful lavender in my opinion.
sharkey, take brushwood literally. them saying that is like westminster dog show announcer saying " good breed for experienced dog owner" or " loyal and protective breed"
wada has been in ground in my garden for 15 months. so far no blooms. growing tall, but leaves slightly lighter green. very nearby many dark green vigorous clems. has been fed, tonic'd and taken good care of. i am sure it will come along, but i would not put it in a feature spot.
this clem has been confused with moonlight many times, it is also not a strong vigorous clem.
re books. cotw has made so many of them less useful. i love my clem books tho. got many of them used online. a site in calif"golden gate" had a trove of them at one time. wold like to know your fav too JJ. youare a good researcher. Mary Toomey Encyclopedia my fav.
ruby glow looks very lavender on cotw, but for me was much more pinkish and looked great with hfyoung. ruby glow is a fantastic clem, under talked about and nice foliage, many blooms not too long of a start up time, problem free for me . it is a p2.
Sharky, I think starting a thread on clem books is a great idea!!
I left something out of my story that didn't make me laugh until I was thinking about it this morning.
The neighbor's husband never came outside, yet he was the one that pointed it out to the wife. .... . He let his wife go outside confront someone who, quite frankly, looked somewhat deranged. ROFL. I wish I would have taken a photo.
women run the village for sure jj
Here is another suggestion for a white Sharkey. John Huxtable. He came from ssv and is at the top of the arbor in year two. Even though he's a guy, I have yet to catch him in disguise of with a fishing rod :)
That's pretty, venu. I've actually hoped someone would comment on John H. I think I asked about him earlier. Would that be a good one to climb a trellis with Don Juan rose? Does he usually have a lot of blooms? Something tells me that I'm going to end up with more than a few whites before I'm through.
I've alread made one decision today. We were able to get the remainder of the big roots pulled up from two shrubs, but the third one is staying. I think the shrub wouldn't budge because it was wanting me to plant alba luxurians with it.
I won't be in any hurry to find a home for Wada's Primrose. I'll be curious now about whether she does better in this climate than she has in other areas. I'll just leave her in the big nursery pot for a while and see what happens. She won't get a prime spot.
John hutable slow start for me, but many whites are.
As Nike would say, just do it!
If I got rid of every Clem that has beenna slow start I would have a third of the clems I have only
m.le coutre or Marie boiselotte the best beside alba luxurialns, Paul farges and species recta.Also good mandshurica ( sp chk that).
Sorry for typos Am on train .&
Since there isn't a separate book thread started, here are my thoughts on clematis books.
An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis by Mary K. Toomey and Everett Leeds is a gorgeous hard covered book that any clematis enthusiast would adore. However, I read somewhere on the internet that is was being revised. I don't know if that is true or not because the following book might be in place of a revision.
Timber Press Pocket Guide to Clematis (Timber Press Pocket Guides) by Mary K. Toomey and Everett Leeds. I can't say enough good things about this book. It is an extension of the Encyclopedia except it only features clematis that are widely available today. It's small enough that you can take it shopping with you as a reference. You can get a good idea of what the book is like at Amazon as they show many examples of the pages. I really appreciate the descriptions written of each plant. The price is great, and the book binding is stitched, which is important to me because I refer to it so often that if it wasn't stitched, it would have fallen apart by now.
Clematis for Small Spaces by Ray Evison, 2007. I like this book, and I like it enough that I might buy it. The criteria he used for which clematis to include in the book, in addition to those smaller in size, were ones that were easier to grow, bloomed well and had longer flowering periods. A lot is written about where to grow each clematis and on what type of support, which is so useful to me it makes the book invaluable, IMO. He mentions a lot about color combinations with other plants, so that is useful if one feels like they need suggestions in that area. The only problem with this book is Ray Evison is from England and grows in a warmer zone, so I am not familiar with many of the plants that he mentions using as supports.
Another book I have from the library that I think I will like is Companions to Clematis by Marigold Badcock. Half of the book is broken down into the spring, summer and fall season, which is something I really need help with right now.
Another worthy clematis book is Gardening with Clematis: Design and Cultivation by Linda Beutler, but it's been so long since I read it, I can't remember why I liked it so much. lol
I don't think there is one definitive clematis book. I like 'Clematis for Small Spaces' because I don't know how many of them grow, and this book helps with that. I like how 'Companions to Clematis' is broken down by season, and I like the "Pocket Guide to Clematis' as general reference.
Most libraries these day also have inter-library loans, so you can get books from other libraries in the area just by going online and reserving them. The books are sent to your library and then they notify you when you can pick up your book(s). It's a fantastic service. My recommendation is to get a library card if you don't already own one. Check online to see if any of the books mentioned are available and even for those I didn't mention. I'm big on not adding clutter to my house, so getting a book from the library first, helps to avoid getting books that I will only look at once.
Thanks, Julia. I'm sorry I never started that thread devoted to books. Just forgot!
There have been many times I would have loved to have had a pocket reference when at the nursery. One time I even called a friend from Lowe's and got her to look a clem up on the web.
This is great information.
As a beginner, I really like the book by Edith Malek, Simply Clematis. I got it from the American Clematis Society. It is a good reference to take to the nursery for quick look ups.
I like Simply Clematis, too. I borrowed mine to someone and never got it back. I was going to reorder it, but I'm sure as soon as I get the replacement, who ever has my original book will return my first copy. lol
hey guys ,if you use a phone or pda with a browser you can use cotw on your phone to look up things. there is a handheld version.
i will post my list of clem books and a comment on each this weekend. consider used books sources for great clem books.