I was wondering if I wanted to live 100% independently off the land for the rest of my life, how much land will it take? this means I wouldn't have to ever buy anything at the store once I was set up. I would need enough land to farm that I could rotate areas every 2 years for growing. Enough trees to provide fire wood and lumber.
I would have a small house (600 Sq/ft)
Large garden (enough to feed me all year)
small green house
small fishery farm
graze lands for animals
field to produce hay for feed etc for animals
a area with solar panels to produce 120% of my electricity needs
a large water source
a forest that I could cut wood for fuel, but it would need to be large enough to grow faster than I use
a small orchard 20 trees
small barn
area for leech feild
Chicken coop
small wood working / metal shop (600 square feet)
small pond for backup water
5 cows
20 chickens
1 horse
3 goats
5 sheep
How much land to live 100% off the land?
Not a simple question - I have no clue!
Most crop rotations work on longer rotations than 2 years, more like 4 or 5 with pasture as part of the rotation. I recommend "Weed the Soil, Not the Crop" by Eric and Anne Nordell.
To figure how much land, you'll need to know where in the country you'll settle, then contact the local ag people... county extension, livestock inspector, etc. to find out what the acreage per animal is for that area. They'll also be able to tell you how land produces hay (for winter) around there.
The Ball Blue book has charts for figuring how much to plant of various vegetables per person per year. That'll help you figure out how large your garden will need to be.
Will you be working your garden with animals or mechanical? It makes a difference for lay out and intensity.
You don't necessarily need wood on your own place... often a wood cutting permit for a local national forest is less than the taxes you'd pay.
Check into the property taxes before you buy, know how much you'll need to clear each year to support your haven. You will still need cash for things you will not be able to produce... like some clothing, anything made of metal or plastic, hired help with the big stuff, misc. fuels, taxes, medical, veterinary, bull fees. It's nice to think you'll be able to never need a vet and just use herbals, but that all kinda flies out the window when you're best cow is in trouble with a difficult birth.
You might check out the book "Five Acres and Independence" by Gene Logsdon. Several others would be:
Storey's Basic Country Skills
Barnyard in your Backyard (also by Story)
The New Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency by John Seymour
Climate and soil will play a big part of how much land you will need. Are you using the woodlot for your building needs as well as your heating? Jay is also right about firewood from the National forests; I think here it is 25.00 for up to five cords a year, you chop, you haul. But taxes in some areas are about that, so, it's a toss-up.
You'll need to study your eating habits very closely, because you actually probably need a lot less to feed just one person, than you think, even if you can, dry or freeze your food. Jay is right, most rotations for good crop health and avoiding any pesticide usage are 4-7 year plans. A small greenhouse and cold frames would be a necessity to feed yourself year round.
You'll need space to grow your feed for your stock (look online for Gene Logsdon's book on Small Scale Grain Growing); probably more than you'll use for your own vegetable and herb production.
You will have to buy your tools, and you probably won't know what all tools you need until you start doing the work. Maybe you are REALLY handy and can make your tools, but you'll still need steel, screws and such even to do that. I also didn't see anything that addresses sweetners (molasses/honey), coffee or tea and spices. Maybe you don't use any of that, but most people use some, even if it is just salt and pepper and cornstarch :)
Orchards take 3-6 years to produce, so you'll have to account for your fruit needs in the interim, unless you can live off the wild fruits in your area.
Unless you're raising cows for beef to eat, I'm finding in my reading that goats are far more practical for milk production for small families, than a cow. Slaughtering is supposedly easier too, and a herd of goats require less space than even a very small herd of cattle. If you want a cow for beef, I'd buy one at the fall calf sales and just raise it big enough to slaughter, which would require about a half acre and some kind of shelter, unless it's like the cows around here that stay out all winter even in the snow. You'll need hay for feed and probably some kind of grain or mangels, or other stored veggie crops to feed it all winter. Alternatively, you could pay more for a calf during the spring sales and strip rotate the fields for grazing with movable electric fence sections. Around here I can put up a cow/calf pair on three acres if I plant the area in good pasture before bringing them in, so I am told. You can also get raw meat for any protection dogs you'd have at a local slaughterhouse, usually for pretty cheap; otherwise you'll have to feed them too.
Unless you plan to raise those sheep you listed for yarn, you'll also need to learn to shear, spin, weave and sew, otherwise you'll still have to buy clothing. Or go to a charity place that gives it away I suppose. As said before, anything made of glass, plastic or other non-wood and rock items would have to be bought, and there will always be taxes on the land. Granted, if you set yourself up really well, and were producing your own electricity AND being real conservative, your annual needs could probably be satisfied by a few weeks or months hired work. I'd want a cash reserve somewhere for emergencies for auto, home, animal and personal emergency issues.
I'm working towards this goal myself, but all my plans just changed as I am going from a couple to a singleton and will be out on my own in the next few months, so my plan has to be re-worked...LOL! I also am only an armchair advisor, since I've done very little of this other than clearing land, hand washing laundry and using a clothesline and raising a garden at this point in time. I'm all book knowledge on everything else. Many others here have far more hands-on experience and will be able to offer you a better idea grounded in reality. I *have* to work, so 12 hours a day are spent working, before anything ever gets done at the homeplace. You wouldn't have that restriction, so you may fare better. Read "Walden" by Thoreau for advice on living truly simply; most people today can't get by on that lifestyle as we're spoiled.
For what you have laid out above, if it was a really well laid out 10 acres with a spring and woodlot, I think you'd be just fine; but this is just personal opinion from very limited experience, and is worth about the price a cup of coffee, if that :)
~Sunny
"I wouldn't have to ever buy anything at the store once I was set up" -does that mean just food-stuffs, or are you including things like clothing, housewares, etc? I want to be totally 'independent' too, but I always get tripped up at the idea of giving up my jeans, or music, or (gasp!!) chocolate! But if you can not only feed yourself and your critters, but grow enough to sell, so that you actually make a profit, your 'quality of life' will be much better.
But I do love the dream, and it keeps me going!
10 acres wouldn't even begin to be enough for livestock around here... they figure around 40 acres per cow/calf unit and that's if the rains come... which they didn't this year, so figure on at least doubling that. It REALLY depends on what part of the country you land in... in southern NM they figure something like 160 acres per cow/calf unit. And then folks on the farm board have raised my eyebrows when they said it was cows per acre in the NE part of the country, rather than acres per cow.
I've raised goats, and what Hineni says is true... they're a lot easier, especially for one person. If you don't keep a buck nearby and don't hang it long, the meat is very tasty and supposedly easier to digest. However, it's nearly impossible to separate the cream from the milk unless you lay out big bucks for an electric separator, so butter's a no go, and cheese is somewhat limited.
If you don't have it yet, I'd encourage you to get a subscription to Small Farmer's Journal, which is geared towards horse farming and moving towards self-sufficiency in general. If you're not going to use engine driven equipment, you'll need to understand how to utilize animal traction to move large loads (inevitable), manage the pastures (harrowing, discing) and cultivate a large garden. You probably won't need a large draft horse, a Fjord or Haflinger will do (even a grade quarter horse type) and the feed, harness and shelter will be cheaper. Big teams are very cool, but very expensive to maintain, and as you get older, they get taller and taller for heaving all that harness up on top of. LOL At 50 YO, I wouldn't consider anything taller than 15 HH for using around here.
Around here, our property taxes are a lot higher than $25... I'm paying over $300 per year on 5 acres of pasture. That'll buy a lot of wood permits, and gas. You might also consider custome logging... for small lot homeowners that just need one or two trees done, or a few acres cleared, which you could drag the logs out with your horse to minimize surface damage. This is becoming a popular service in Northern CA, I understand... custom horse logging for small lot owners who need to thin and maintain their woods. If you do the contract to keep at least a percentage of the wood, you'll get paid in cash and wood.
This is also my dream...but I am also a mostly armchair enthusiast. There is a great source of information at Backwoods Home www.backwoodshome.com. They have several publications that you can order about self-sustained living.
Hey Hineni,
Have you read Logsdon's book on Small Scale Grain? I've been thinking about getting it and wondered what you thought of it?
I got to use a flail this summer, just briefly, but it was interesting and now I think I could do that to thresh the grain... I'd have to build a threshing floor though... ummm, maybe nail a couple of sheets of plywood down?
Hey Jay,
I have the free online copy of Logsdon's Small Scale Grain; I've read about half of it but expect to fully re-visit it after my move and during the winter 'lull' this year. It is part of my future plans. I can send you a copy if you want it; it is in PDF format. I'm not sure how it would differ from a hard copy one, if at all.
Flailing eh? I use that term a lot, but never involving grain yet ;) Drop me a DM if you want a copy of that.
I could have had a Jersey milk cow if I had a) the cash, b) a way to haul her here and then wherever I land and c) knew where I was going. Price was good and she had a good disposition too. Dang. Always the way it goes. I still think goats would be the best for me at my age, and maybe I'll just have to continue to buy my butter and cheese until I find an affordable mine and have a pasture to put it on.
Yeah... we just missed a great auction today. We went to the county fair and on the way home saw a sign for our local farm auctioneer. Stopped, but it was already pretty much over. Looked like there was some good stuff.... an easy entry cart for one. {{sigh}} Wasn't meant to be....
Maybe I can download that too... do you remember the site?
Errr, no I don't remember the website right off. It might be the Soil and Health Library. I'll check and see and get back to you.
What's an easy entry cart?
An easy entry cart is designed so you don't have to swing your leg over a bar that runs from the shaft to the seat...
http://easyentrycart.com/
The cart I have now can be a bit of a hassle to get in and out, especially if the animal is a bit fidgety. I tend to hook my toe when I get out... I haven't quite gone splat yet, but it's gonna happen one of these days...
and donkeys always look at you like you are the most amusing dumb thing they've ever met when you do a face plant in front of them.