Considering sheep & goats for 4H...but I have questions.

I am thinking about helping my grandsons get involved in 4H and want to know what we're getting into before jumping in! :)

1. When do you need to buy a lamb and/or kid if you want them ready for fair in July?

2. How long does it take for them to grow to "market weight"?

3. Do you always get to sell your sheep/goat at the fair? ....I don't want to bring them back home.

4. What are the "must haves" for raising sheep/goats?

5. What are the positives and negatives about raising sheep?

6. What are the positives and negatives about raising goats?

7. Which would YOU rather raise?

8. What breeds of sheep/goats are "best sellers"? Meat or dairy?

Thanks for the help!!
Glenda

Glenda, I'm sorry I have no answers for you.. I'm into chickens.. but I hope someone will come along soon.

Moxon should know, or frans or....(insert thousands of names of everyone who knows much more than I do.about goats and sheepses)...they are among the multitude of DG pastural mavens.

I can give you info on q's 4 through 8 later today when I have a bit more time.

1) Your local extension office should have a lot of that info. Around here the earliest a kid can be born is November of the preceding year. So figure from the earliest acceptable birth date to weaning...

2) Most here are sold (speaking mostly of kids, but I think the rules are roughly the same for each) at 5-6 months. Males need to be wethered to prevent their getting a 'gamey' taste (some cultures like this....ewww) and to direct growth into meat rather than...er...masculinity... And again...the extension office will know or will know who to call.

3) I think the opportunity is always there, but there are no guarantees. Calling the local fair officials should help. It varies greatly from venue to venue in all the small details. I think the only thing that would keep you from selling though is either winning and being obligated to take it to the next level, or not enough buyers.

By no means an expert in this, but if it helps at all....

4. What are the "must haves" for raising sheep/goats?
I have had sheep and goats for a little less than a year, but I've learned a LOT in that time. The must-haves for short term ownership, in my opinion, would be:
a) hoof trimmers, good quality - hoof trimming is important and must be done regularly, and done well. Cheap or not well made trimmers will be a source of frustration for you and the animals. Invest in a decent pair.
b) good fences - especially for goats. They are escape artists.
c) good feed sources (good hay, preferably with alfalfa or clover content, and grain for supplementing)
d) minerals (differ for sheep and goats, speak to your vet)
e) dewormer - we use a combination of safeguard and ivermectin
f) free access to water and shade at all times. Shade can be trees or a barn.

5. What are the positives and negatives about raising sheep?
PRO
a) selling their fleece for extra income
b) less likely to escape fences
c) generally more docile, easy to handle
d) great manure for gardens
CON
a) coats require extra care compared to goats
b) mineral/feed requirements - copper can be toxic, must ensure low copper levels
c) they can get very hot in warmer climates but in MI you are probably fine.

6. What are the positives and negatives about raising goats?
PRO
a) easy to milk and make cheese/ice cream/soap/lotion
b) friendly and people oriented (if trained early)
CON
a) experts at getting out of fenced areas
b) fleece/fur not really useable unless angora goat

7. Which would YOU rather raise?
Sheep, but that's because I spin their wool and sell it. I also love their personalities. I have goats as well though and I love the Nigerian dwarf goats. They don't escape as often and are very sweet and you can still milk them. They are also very small and easy to handle. As for sheep, I prefer the smaller breeds also - Icelandic, Shetland, babydoll, etc. They also have good spinning fleece. They are not the typical "market lamb" types.

8. What breeds of sheep/goats are "best sellers"? Meat or dairy?
I think it depends on the buyers in your area. The thing with the dairy is that in order to sell milk, cheese, etc, people have to be set up fully with the local health requirements, which in most places works out to about $50K to $75K worth of equipment. When you have that kind of investment, you are very picky about where your animals come from, etc, and tend to breed your own. Some people just want a dairy goat for their own home use (like us). Do not discount the value of fleece sheep - spinners flocks are common and people are interested in well priced sheep with interesting fleeces for spinning. Like me, for instance. :-)

Awesome!! All great info and a HUGE help!! .....Anyone else want to chime in??? The more the better! :-)

Our 4H club assists all our kids in getting their Fair animals, I am not sure if the other clubs do it. A few parents got together and took kids and trailers to Wickenberg to get the pigs, Vegas to get the lambs and somehwere, I cant remember to get the calves (Local), all at different times so they would be ready for show. The pigs we got a few months ago, and some are already at fair weight..

The kids sell them at fair, and use the money to buy next years stock...

4H is an awesome program for kids, I for one, am proud to be a volunteer. (Billy is not old enough, he has a few years more to go, but by then I will have this down pat).

Your local 4-H group would be able to answer a lot of these questions, especially about breeds. There is usually one or two popular breeds in each area for the 4-H and don't even think about trying another... the judges won't look at you. It also may not sell well at auction. There are usually farms/ranches that are known for supplying quality animals, and Ms Jester's right in that your 4-H group will at least put you in touch with them.

For example, around here don't even think about any other kind of sheep than a suffolk.

4-H is competitive as well as informative. Don't forget, the goal is to raise an animal that shows well, and a lot of what the kids do is more along the lines of fitting a show animal than raising food... sheep and pigs are routinely exercised, and the bathing and primping are every bit as fussy as a show horse. (A friend of mine's kids do 4-H and he shakes his head over what they have to do that has nothing to do with raising meat... jogging the sheep, for example. Actually toughens the meat)

At least around here what 4-H is ostensibly interested in is carcass quality, not fleece quality. But only the carcass quality of certain breeds... suffolk, not hair sheep. Go figure. I don't know if they have a meat goat vs dairy goat classification... or do they judge an alpine based on its carcass quality rather than its dairy confirmation... well, if it was a wether, I guess (I hope) it'd be the carcass quality... LOL

Out here folks show Angus... don't even think about showing up with a Milking Shorthorn. LOL Or a Belted Galloway. And you'd just get flat laughed out of the ring if you had a Dexter. You might could get away with a Longhorn.

4-H is a great program, don't get me wrong. Just know that it has its parameters. The kids will learn something about raising and caring for sheep or goats for meat, a lot about showing sheep/goats, probably the fine points of confirmation standard of the popular breed and very little outside of that. But it's a start, and a very useful place to begin.

Once you've got the basics down, then you can go fringe and get Icelandic sheep or polypay or Tennessee Fainting goat or Mule-footed goat... alternative feeds, health care, and uses.

Like pack goats. =0)

JayRyrunen.... Glad you gave your opinion.. I agree with you.. Hope all is well

Hey MsJstr... Thanks.
Things are getting themselves sorted out, I'm glad to say. =0) It's nice to be back.