Echeveria (Echeveria gibbiflora var. metallica)

Echeveria
Echeveria gibbiflora var. metallica

Labelled E. 'Metallica' from T&L Nursery and looks quite different from Palmbob's photos.

Looks like your nursery mislabeled it then, I believe this to be E. Perle von Nurnberg, a very common echeveria carried in many nurseries and garden centers.
Resembles all 18 images here: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/54356/

Any thoughts on this? We can move the photo to the correct entry if we can determine for sure what it is.

Are there more than one E. 'Metallica'?

I don't think T&L mislabelled, the are pretty reputable. Here is the link from T&L:
http://tandlnursery.com/glossary.cfm?plantID=1902

And more links from other growers below that look like T&L's:

1.) Emerald Coast Grtowers:
http://www.ecgrowers.com/Echeveria-Metallica-50-p/39270.htm

2.) Cactus Center Club Assoc, 3rd pic down:
http://welcometocactusland.com/Succulents/Crassulaceae/Echeveria/echeveria_gibbiflora.htm

3). DS Cole Growers, second row down:
http://www.dscolegrowers.com/08%20Succulents.htm#

4.) Laurelton Greenhouse, 4th row down:
http://www.laurelton.com/ImgSucculents.htm

If we start a new E. 'Metallica' cultivar for this, what species would it be?
On one of the sites it mentions PVN is a hybrid of E. metallica and E. potosina, hence the resemblence.
What would you advise?
-Au

Thank you for replying to our query.

From what I can find, Echeveria 'Metallica' and Echeveria gibbiflora var. metallica are the same plant, and is one of the parents of Echeveria 'Perle von Nurnberg'.

Echeveria 'Perle von Nurnberg' is a cross between E. 'Metallica' and E. potosina created by R. Graeser in the 1930's.

Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=xFz8wKRxsAIC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=Echeveria+%27Metallica%27&source=bl&ots=bxduUikOkT&sig=cpiyoT23PvBRoC8J6COzBXDJVr0&hl=en&ei=kKhrSpCWGImQNtvusPkG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

From all of photos and descriptions I can find, they do resemble each other. I'm not sure why the leaves in Palmbob's photos are more elongated, where all of the photos I can find online are more round. Might be the age of the plant? Or different lighting or other growing conditions?

Photos of 'Perle von Nurnberg' http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Perle%20von%20Nurnberg&sa=N&tab=wi&um=1
Photos of 'Metallica' http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=Echeveria+%27Metallica%27&btnG=Search+images&aq=f&oq=

I think your photo is correctly placed where it is unless someone can point out some differences that we may be overlooking.

Joan,

I love that reference book! Just from the leaf shapes alone it is really hard to imagine PB's plants and T&L's plants being the same one. Okay, now so this is what I've found (just to muddy up the waters.)

Echeveria gibbiflora var. metallica is an old name known back since 1874. There is a good drawing of it in the German publication Das Pflanzenreich (Plant Kingdom) back in 1900. Here is a scanned page:
http://caliban.mpiz-koeln.mpg.de/~stueber/gilg/high/IMG_0385.html
and from the drawing it looks more like T&L's/Emerald Coast's/ DS Cole's plant that it does PalmBob's.


Also, if I read this correctly, according to the International Crassulaceae Network Org., Echeveria gibbiflora var. metallica [1874] is obsolete nomenclature, and it is now a cultivar: Echeveria gibbiflora ‘Metallica’ [Kimnach, 1998]. See reference link below, and their pictures look like T&L's, but more wavy in the leaves.
http://www.crassulaceae.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=197:echeveria-listings-g-h-i-j-k-uk&catid=93:list-species&Itemid=15


Also, Provenwinners is touting a Echeveria rudolfhii 'Metallica', a cultivar not a variety, and the leaf shape in their photo looks more like Palmbob's.See their photo in the link.
http://www.provenwinners.com/plants/detail.cfm?photoID=8997

Also, I looked for E. rudolfhii in your Google reference book, but the closest I found is E. rodolfi. The Mexican publication Acta Botanica Mexicana has a nice reference to E. rodolfi in Vol52 pg 43-48 (2000).
http://www.ecologia.edu.mx/abm/resumenes/abm52.htm#b_

Then there is this guy on Ebay who popped up when I lookd for E. rodolfi.

sure sounds like what has been selling as E metallica is probably this rodolfi (not sure which spellling is correct). Matches very closely, and frankly, makes a lot more sense, as it sure seems quite unrelated to E gibbifloras.

Up to this point I think we've determined that the 'Metallica' and 'Perle von Nurnberg' entries are correct. Haven't we?

Now it appears we've discovered that Palmbob's photos are Echeveria rodolfi? The description in the Illustrated Handbook of Succulent Plants does seem to describe the leaves, but I can't find a photo of E. rodolfi for comparision.

I was able to find one photo of Echeveria rudolfhii 'Metallica' but the plants from Proven Winners are the only ones with the species spelled this way and reference to the cultivar 'Metallica' (note the leaf shape, doesn't it look like E. gibbiflora?) http://www.hostas.com/succulents/tender/index-succulents-tender.html

Is anyone NOT confused? :)

I think we should probably move my plants to this new Echeveria... you pick the spelling

Thanks! I went with E. rodolfi, as that is the only spelling I could verify with a reputable source. http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/186901/

Joan,
I'm glad I don't have your job! :-)

It looks like the two Metallicas should be:

1) Echeveria rodolfi ‘Metallica’ with all of Palmbob's photos.
Although Provenwinners refers to is as "rudolfhii ", both Eggli's book and the ABM Journal support "rodolfi." However, there's another guy on ebay selling these as 'rodolfii'. Maybe you can do the main listing as E. rodolfi, with the other spellings below as aka 'rodolfii' and 'rudolfhii'.

http://cgi.ebay.com/echeveria-rodolfii-metallica_W0QQitemZ160347314473QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:101

2) Echeveria gibbiflora ‘Metallica’ [Kimnach, 1998] --- is now a cultivar in Eggli's book and in the Succ. Journal of America Vol70-6. The old name, E. gibbiflora var. metallica should prpbably still be referenced below it as an aka. The photo of my plant grown by T&L can go here.

Phew! Thanks for questioning my pic in the first place.
All the best-Au

Oops, you posted while I was typing. Same stuff anyway. -Au

Whew!! Glad you all hashed that out!

The only reference I could find for Echeveria rodolfi ‘Metallica’ was the ebay one you also found. Unfortunately, if it's not referenced in another reputable source, we can't authenticate what is listed on ebay. I can't figure out what Proven Winners is doing listing it as they are. They are the only reference to it that way, so I think they must be mistaken. We don't want to lend authenticity to the spellings if they are indeed, incorrect. If we can find them referenced in the future, we can add them at that time.

I did change the Echeveria 'Metallica' entry. It should be correct now. Yes?

My vote for E. 'Perle von Nurnberg' and **E. 'Metallica2' as distinctly different plants!

In my opinion from growing both for several years the plants I have that are labled **E. 'Metallica 2' and E. 'Perle von Nurnberg' are definitely very different plants. Superficially they are so similar and I have been stumped, thinking that I originally propagated one from taking a piece of the other. The plants are growing in 1 gallon nursery pots next to one another. Receiving Identical Care!

Here are my observations:
1) The over-all growth is VERY different.
E. 'Perle von Nurnberg' produces a long trunk with one rosette. Little or no side branching.
**E. 'Metallica 2' produces "pups" quite prolifically. Shed leaves root quickly.

2) Slight differences in the leaves:
E. 'Perle von Nurnberg' has leaves rounded very similarly on the outside edge but on the INSIDE EDGE, LESS ROUNDED (gradual) tapering to the trunk attachment (more like a teardrop stretched out just a little). Over all the leaves have a narrower width to length ratio.
The leaves seem to hold more of a crisp pink line on the leaf edge. Seems to be less pink infusion into the leaf.
**E. 'Metallica 2' leaves are definitely MORE ROUNDED on the INSIDE EDGE of the curve (abrubtly) tapering to the trunk (more like a 'fat' teardrop). So that the leaf is wider looking.
I frequently see more pink infusion especially in newer leaves...but only slight or absent on mature leaves.

I hope that this testimony helps to support clarification of the resolution to the issue.

**I am thinking that the nursery I got this from had both E. 'Metallica' and E. 'Perle von Nurnberg' as well and decided to call both of them 'Metallica 1 & 2'. Unfortunately that particular nursery (I will not mention any names) has mislabeled plants before. I received my E. 'Perle von Nurnberg' from a very reliable different source.