I found these two newly emerged monarchs on the ground.this morning .. ?
can someone tell me what is going on? -
what is happening ?
Virus? Did they have a place to go for their upside-down-wing sprout? I have had to help a few onto a branch or something. I had one emerge at night recently that ended up like this, and I think it was a virus. They usually try to emerge in the mornings, and this poor guy maybe was sick and his 'instincts' were completely off, as well as his balance. I never thought to keep an eye on him that late at night, and found him all smooshie, so euthenasia was in order....
I put the two sick ones in the freezer........and will dispose of them later.
Virus is possible... but how do I protect the other cats & chrysalis (Plural?)
from the same thing happening.
I had 24 monarch caterpillars in 3 different containers. 17 of the 24 were released successfully. One emerged but only one set of wings fully expanded. Needless to say it couldn't fly since the one set of wings was all crumpled up. It had plenty of room to expand. After reading online, I discovered the butterfly has to send fluids into the wings to fully expand them. Some butterflies are infected with bacteria or viruses and I guess just don't develop correctly. The other six chrysallises never opened and were discolored. They were all in the same "batch". Again, after researching, there are bacteria present on the leaves that can infect the caterpillars, or the female monarch could have been infected and passed it on to the eggs. I've since read that leaves can be sterilized before putting them in the containers but I read that after the fact.
I've been having a bad monarch morning too. I had 15 in the chrysalis and things were going well, then yesterday, 7 eclosed. Two fell to the floor of their crate and their wings stuck there before I found them. One wing developed, the other didn't, on both of them. Then this morning, 4 of them eclosed and fell to the floor of the crate, and their wings are damaged to the point that I'm probably going to have to euthanize them. This is heartbreaking! But a learning experience. I always thought when they emerged from their chrysalis, they hung on to IT while they dried. I didn't realize they could fall off! This must happen out in the wild, no? I've raised BST's for the past three years, but this is my first experience with monarchs.
What do other monarch raisers do, what are your methods? I need to do something quickly to make sure my last two chrysalides eclose safely.
And can you ever do anything to help unfold the wings?
Not once they are dried. If the butterfly falls with the wings wet, if it can get up on something pretty soon where it can hang and expand the wet wings while they dry it should be fine. That's assuming the wings are formed okay in the chrysallis...there is a disease where the wings don't form right in the chrysallis, as Ruth said. So if you're raising them, make sure there's enough room when they emerge and maybe something for them to climb up on. Put paper towels or something soft on the bottom of the cage in case they do fall. Nothing you can do unless the wings are still wet when the butterfly falls...then a little help getting it up somewhere it can hang if it can't make it on its own.
Thanks Linda. I am so bummed. I've got 4 beauties clinging to some flowers I put in the crate, and there's something not right about the wings on each of them. On one, just a small part of the dorsal wing is folded under. He tried to fly but can't. They're happy sitting on the flowers right now but I suppose the humane thing is to euthanize them?
I have f ound about 12- more chrysallis that look normal (now).
I found one that was a odd shape, and one that was strange brown... so I popped them in the freezer for euthanization.
can I spray my milkweed plants with a mister with some bleach in it ? and then mist it off after 10 mins? will that kill the virus? (I won' t spray the cats)
my husband is on board with my hobby and we are going to build a nursery inside the lanai and collect all the "jade crystals" and biggish cats and put them their new safe place to hang, emerge.
I'm basing mine on Shelia's plan - I'll post a picture if I ever get it done.
There are some great websites that tell you how to sterilize the leaves. The sites that I read were picking the leaves to put inside a container for the cats to eat. They weren't doing it on the actual plants with cats. I used terrariums with mesh lids so the monarchs would cling to the mesh to dry their wings, not the chrysalis. The 17 that I had all clung to the mesh lid.
I had one butterfly that was hanging upside down but still had one set of wings that were crumpled. I guess it just happens some time. I left that one live in a larger aquarium that I put some floral foam into with twigs to climb onto. I would put fresh flowers such as butterfly weed, cosmos, lantana, yarrow, and flowers from the butterfly bush everyday. It lived for about a week. I probably should have frozen it but I thought I would give this idea a try.
But I wish the cats followed the phrase "You don't eat where you poop"..... you can sterilize leaves before all you want, but if poop is on leaves, it's only a matter of time I think.... I try to clean off leaves, containers, etc daily....
Today I have 4 perfect emerging monarchs and 1 that never finished emerging.
after this post I'm off to get the paper towels and bleach. I do try to keep the area of milkweed pots on my lanai clean, I sweep and mop the area with bleach&water. there is not a lot of frass on the milkweed. I don't have them confined....they have run of the lanai - till the nursery gets built.
I also try to rotate the milkweed plants. This is a learning process for sure.
Thanks for all the advice.
suscwbuf, I have three whose wings are not developed quite right, and I feel bad about putting them down. They're getting around the crate all right, they just can't fly. I did put one in some soft tissue and then in the freezer finally this morning because it wasn't able to get around at all, its' wings were the worst developed, the remaining three look pretty normal. They seem happy with the fresh flowers I keep in there. What would other monarch enthusiasts do? Is it fair and humane to let them live in the crate for their short lives, with flowers and room to roam around?
My last two monarch chrysalides eclosed this morning, and it all went fine, they're out there somewhere now, enjoying the flowers!
Ruth, I hope your experiment goes all right, I'd be afraid to use the bleach, but seeing all those abnormal monarchs would make me frantic to try anything! I hope you will post your nursery photos, I'd love to get my husband to help me with some better living quarters for my BST and monarch cats.
I just use plastic containers for my cats. I've had too many problems with disease, afraid of the kind that can spread cat to cat. With the plastic containers, I can have a small number of cats in each and then sterilize the containers easily once they are vacant.
This message was edited Jul 14, 2009 8:29 PM
Sounds like OE, which is a spore that infects all stages of the Monarch. We just had a bad outbreak at the museum. You can wash everything in vinegar if you think bleach is too harsh. Read more about it here: http://www.monarchwatch.org/biology/ophry.htm
Melanie
Well, I'm sorry to hear of the problems but glad to hear I'm not the only one. We've had very few monarchs here this year, so when I found 9 baby cats I gathered them all up. Out of the 9, one didn't completely form it's J, two had deformed wings, and 1 never completely eclosed. I got to set 6 free, later in the day I found 1 that was not acting right, trying to fly, but not quite making it.
I've got several different kinds of cats right now, 1 big cage and 1 little cage..gotta figure out better living arrangements for them. I especially want to raise the monarchs as there are so few here, as well as the Zebra Longwings. I've got alot more Queens this year, which we had hardly any of last year.
I''ve got my fingers crossed what was happening is over......3 beautiful girls came out this morning.
I know the feeling, mjsponies, it's so hard isn't it, you just feel so bad for the ones that don't get to fly free.
I'm glad for your three beauties Ruth! Makes it all worth it, huh?!
Ruth...what is your cage made of? If it is a glass reptile /aquarium set-up that may be a problem. The cats have no problem climbing up the side of the container, but if they fall as they emerge, they can't climb the glass. The paper will break a fall sometimes, but if they can't climb quickly they don't have a chance for strong straight wings.
I take my chrysalis after they are firm and dry and glue them to a piece of styrofoam covered with cheesecloth or something they can grasp. I put it in my cage at a 30 degree angle so they hang free but are close enought to grasp the surface also. There are a lot of ways to mount them and each person must find a way that works for them. Just remember the ones you raised and were able to release. In the wild only 2% or so survive......so keep trying.
Hi Sheila: no cage yet.........I bought all the supplies 30 ft pvc, a mess of connectors/couplers, but I couldn't find the 3 corner ones so I boubht a bunch of Ts Hubby is gonna help..and some sheer curtain panels... The cats acutally have my whole lania to move around in 30' x 50' (not counting the pool) . 2 went into Js today..... I try to check every day for cats outside my lanai ... slim pickins the last week or so. I found a wasp sunday on my way out for the paper.........i was pissed, it had already eaten most of a cat... I grabbed some card board and squished it, I'm allergic to bees, wasps. and some weird ant like critter that likes my fire bush and hibiscus. I had to stop myself from using my bare hands to squish it. I try to comfort myself that I've got a close to 90% survival rate right now.... :) ... and not grieve over the ones that don't make it. I still find it sad that I can't get them all to thrive. I think I should see 4 or 5 emerge tomorrow morning.
I did my flower feather duster show today for 2 that had emerged this morning ... my neighbors must think i've lost it. My family does already, they were in the pool as I was chasing butterfies with my penta flower on a pole Laughing at me. LOL .. they should send it into AFV.
The Butterflies are so pretty. I have seen 3 or 4 new "varieties" and will do some internet surfing to see what they are. Gorgeous things. I also have a hummer or 2 .. not sure if it is the same one or several, only 1 at a time.. but one looks bigger to me.
I really find the butterfly/gardening hobby very stress relieving. We own our own business that has been severly affected by the economic downturn.
Thanks for all the info.
Oh, that's right...I can't keep everyone straight. There are a lot of us around the country trying to do our part. So far this year we have a better crop of bfs than the last year.
I had the same experience as Ruth yesterday. I released 15 Monarchs successfully this week but one has the same ailments as the first posted picture. I tried to assist it but I believe as the others have said it acquired a virus of some nature. The wings were not formed correctly and were bent under neath the monarch. I guess the only humane thing to do is place it in the freezer?
I guess its not bad seeing as how I have released 32 butterflies in the past 2.5 months. :) Ranging from different Swallowtails, Monarchs, Gulfs, Zebra Longwings, Moths and Queens. I just started raising these a few months ago and it feels more like a job. Its extremely addicting and rewarding for me and my son. I guess I should thank the DG'r blondhavmofun for helping me along.
Thanks,
Matt
Matt, remember even when we have a terrible time we still beat Mother Nature's odds. The freezer is humane, or if you can manage it, I cut their heads off with scissors. I volunteer at the Museum of Science and Industry in Tampa and unfortunately we have to put down butterflies fairly often and that's how I do it. Quick and humane. It still amazes me how many people point out when we have dead butterflies in the flight cage. They kind of recoil and I say, "Hey, that one died of old age. Better than being eaten, right?" They tend to agree with me then.
Melanie