In researching winter care of chickens I came a cross a website promoting the concept of "Fresh Air" poulty houses, even in colder climates as far north a Canada. The site is Richard Plamodon's Poultry Pages http://www.plamondon.com/faq_winter.html
The concept in a nutshell states that ventillation is more important than warmth. Suggesting, not to bother attempting to keep the coop warm, but rather we should open windows during winter to allow for better ventillation. It summizes that it will prevent disease and improve egg production.
I know nothing other than what I have read since beginning this great adventure 2 months ago and what I gather from the vast experience of this group. So, what does this great collective have to say about Fresh Air Poultry Houses?
Fresh Air Poultry Houses - Good or Bad?
I agree with the ventilation but i still shield mine (bantams) from the cold with wind break cloth i don't use any other source of heat.
I have had chickens all my life and when i was a teen had a covered roost with no front just sides and had 40 chickens never had a chicken freeze.
I have seen folks here (Claire) talk about the chickens doing great in the snow.
Most of the other info i do those giving them scratch at night so they have a full crop and having a open front for sunning.
Thanks for the link it's a very interesting topic :~)
I believe they need both fresh air and warmth, but not one at the expense of the other. They need vents for air, a way in and out of a warm hidaway to snuggle in..
We had several different scenerios here last winter. Amazingly the most injuries were had in the garage under the heat lamp. I had their water near the heatlamp to keep it thawed and it was so warm there they would cuddle to drink, get wet, and when they went to bed their feet would be wet.. (these were some young birds. Not chicks, just sort of teens.)
The birds that were outside.. well they would come out in the sunshine.. scratch around.. but you could udually find them all huddled together on the roost staying warm.. I would run in there with them to warm up if I was outside working and got a chill.. you would be amazed at how much heat 20 chickens can put out when they huddle.
The fresh air would be fine here! We never freeze.. at least not for more than a day.. I am a firm believer in fresh air.. The more the better! I have my coops positioned for flow through breeze.. it gets dusty in there if it's all closed up.
I'm sure it depends on the location.. :)
I wouldn't want to risk not heating my hen house here in Iowa. Last year I had several birds lose parts of their comb due to frostbite, and also several birds lost toes due to frostbite. It was my first winter with chickens. I had tried to only purchase breeds that were referred to as "hardy" breeds for cold weather. It was only after that began to happen that I installed the ceramic panel wall heaters in my coop and that seemed to make a tremendous improvement. I didn't have near the frostbite problems after that. We have a good 6 to 8 weeks here of very cold nights, like minus 20 kind of cold, and also I am located on a hill which gets very strong winds that can be bitterly cold.
They love to get out on the sunny winter days and play in the snow and scrabble around for scratch grains under the snow. On dreary days they tend to stay in the coop more. They also snuggle up to my sheep in the sun and do their little sunbathing leg stretches when nestled in the wool of a sheep. The sheep don't seem to mind.
I have ventilation holes in my coops but they are not huge holes. About 2 inch circles, and high up on the walls so as not to allow low crawling predators in.
On really cold nights, I take out a pan of warm oatmeal (just the quick oats kind) that I make for them before bed, so they get a warm meal. I believe this helps.
I agree that it depends on the location, but I haven't seen or heard of anyone in Iowa with a winter coop with a fully open side. I notice he talks about using galvanized pails for water. They would freeze in less than an hour here in the depth of winter. We have to use heated waterers - no choice unless we have time to constantly take water out (which we don't!). We also use heavy layers of straw/hay in the coop in the winter on the floor and sides in order to insulate.
And here in cold Wisconsin, we had leghorns that insisted on sleeping in the trees at night. They would be up there in the dead of a snow storm. Hardy birds!
Mine have no heat, never thought too, my grandparents were fruther north than me & never used heat so we never considered it. We give them a wind break with several layers of sheet plastic & straw around the base of the coop. This year I will use a heated water bc I hate breaking ice but it won't be in the coop it will be outside. They have lots of ventilation bc the roof isn't air tight.
We were cutting back on electricity last year and figured if our forfathers chickens could survive without heat so could mine.. but I gotta tell you.. I have just as soft a heart as our dear Claire and it was tough.. We did lose one bird and one frostbitten foot.. a few toes here and there and a touch of combs.. We also could not afford to have heated water dishes.. so we ran gazzilions of gallons of water out all day and night.. We did run some heat lamps and an oil filled heater when it hit 20+ below.. but I am afraid we are going to have to rethink it all this year.. Our elec bill for that month was out of this world.. so thats out for this year!
I think you have to choose your breeds carefully, if you want to forgo heating coops in extreme winter climates. The light bodied, large combed, Mediterranean breeds and hard feathered game fowl are probably not going to do well, while those developed specifically for cold hardiness are probably going to be fine. Buckeyes and Chanteclers were created with small combs for that reason and big fluffy Orpingtons are said to do well--although they do have larger combs and might need the "Flower Pot" heater to keep their combs from freezing.
Here, in Northern Ca, even I don't require heating in the winter--I just bring in all my dogs and let them warm the room up.
My chickens survived the winter within a cold building.
We had a flock of hens, about 60. They spent the winter inside an old corn crib. We put roofing tin over the sides to cover the slatted walls. The only problem we had was water freezing up. Even with the heater bases. We got around 30 eggs every day all winter long.
(Had to pick them often or they would freeze.)
We also started with 125 chicks hatched October 1. We had them in a 10 x 10 room at first, with 3 heat lamps going. As they got older & needed more room, we added another 10 x 10 area. We cut out the heat lamps after a couple months. By mid winter, they were looking for more room. So we opened up the other corn crib for them. This one was covered with old fiberglass roofing. Kept the wind out but not the cold.
They started laying eggs about end of February. They have gone nuts on number of eggs every since. 3 weeks ago Sunday we kept track. We got 121 eggs. We have only lost 3 of these hens. 1 was deformed at birth, the other 2 just turned up dead. So 122 hens, 121 eggs, not bad. They seem to do this every day, although we don't count them each day. They also lay 99% of their eggs before 9 AM.
Picture is dated February 27.
I think the biggest problem with chickens or any animal is trying to do things that are unnatural. Animals & birds can adapt as needed.
Bernie
Love the picture Bernie :)
Yeah! Cool pic! l like the one in the front with her head turned.. LOL
OK, here is the flock of older hens. Lots of Americana's. Among other breeds. Even a couple bantams.
So it appears that breed is a key factor in making the Fresh Air Poultry house work. I have Orpingtons and Wyandottes which are supposed to be hardy and Red sex links (Gold Comet/Delaware mix) which I assumed are hardy in my zone 6 area as that's was the ag center sells.
Many of the things you all mentioned were also discussed in Plamodon's website, such as: feeding a hardy meal in the evening, thick layer of bedding; plenty of drinkable water; protection from moisture (which is according to Plamodon the primary cause of frostbite); lighting to stimulate feeding (not just egg production).
Thanks for sharing your experiences. You've all helped to pique my interest. I'm definitely going to research this subject further.
Thanks for the pics Bernie. I've learned this group loves pics of chicks as much as they love their chicks
Ohhhhh, we sure do :) Cute!!
And yes, the key is to pick out the Chickens that are hardy in your area. They all sound like they will do great. We are in zone 4 and ours have no problems with the winters. They never stay cooped in. They like to get out in it to play and scratch. And we did order the Orpingtons and Wyandottes. Unfortunatly they sent us Red sex links (Gold Comet/Delaware mix) I believe. But love those girls, they are about the tamest of the group. We are thinking about ordering more of them next year.
Our EE's also do very well here :)
Leghorns also do very well in this zone. Two of our roosters are leghorn mixes.
Our brown hens are Gold Stars. They came from Hoover Hatchery in Rupp, IA.
They are so tame, I have trouble walking through the hen house. They untie your shoes, pull on any loose strings on your clothes, even try to nest in DW hair.
They are a crazy bunch.
I tried letting have the run of the farm one day. Only took a few minutes & they were all over the place where they shouldn't be! Put them away quickly.
LOL CountryGardens.
We do let ours have the run of the yard for short times towards evening.
Our garden is fenced in, as we knew they would head for that. We only leave ours out for a short time late in the afternoon. Then they seem to be happy with the weeds, bugs, and grass that they find in the short time they are out.
The black raspberries will be ripe soon, so the girls will have to stay in their runs until I'm done picking them. They tend to beat me to them otherwise :(
The leghorn hens where the worse at digging in my flower beds. So far, the ones we have seem to leave my flower beds alone pretty much, other then to pick buds off one of my flowers :(
We have never used heat in our coops. In NY we lived where it might get down to -10F, and here in NH it has gotten down to -25F. We have had Buff Orpingtons (which are sort of like feather duvets with feet), Turkens, Barred Rocks, Dark Cornish, Easter Eggers, NH Reds, one Lakenvelder, and Wyandottes and not had any problems beyond some roosters having frostbitten edges on their combs.
The coop we have now is ventilated at the roof level. See photo. The space between the rafters is open all the way from front to back so fresh air can flow unimpeded.
Hi gallesfarm,
you are in the same zone as we are. You have had a number of the same kind of chickens that we have had, and we also only had some get frostbite on their combs.
Wow, I'm impressed. Maybe we are doing something wrong. I don't know what to say because really everything got better after we added the heaters. :-(
CMoxon, what ever works for you.
As far as I was concerned, I thought we had some pretty dumb leghorns for liking to roost in the trees in the dead of winter here......during snow and rain.
Yeah, whatever works! I forgot to mention we also have guineas (known around here as "The Collective") and one time they decided to not come into the coop for the night. In an ice storm. Somehow they survived, 30 feet up in a pine tree. Stupid little birds.
Claire, I don't think it's what your doing wrong... I think it's what you and your animals expect of you..
If you ALWAYS zip your chickens coat up to the neck, he won't come to you and say mommy zip, he'll just go off and play and know he's chilly .. but he trusts you to keep him warm.. knowing you will not let him down..
If you NEVER zip his coat, he will not count on you and take care of himself in whatever manner need-be to survive.
Doesn't mean you are wrong, just means you have choosen a different path..
All this says is they are all capable.. they just need to learn early on.. and of course, having the right breed in the right weather helps a lot.. as was stated here.
I went and read the article after replying... it talked about ventilation preventing moisture buildup, which is obvious, but also that too much moisture might contribute to frostbite. That does sort of make sense. So Claire, maybe before you put the panel heaters in, you had more humidity in the coop, and that contributed to the frostbite problems. Then after you put the heaters in, it helped dry things out a bit. Don't know if this is what happened, it's just a thought. But if it works, it works, so don't feel bad about using the heaters!
I also use deep litter, as others have mentioned. I know some will disagree, but I really only clean the coop floor out once or at the most twice a year. I fluff it with a pitchfork and add fresh on top occasionally, and let it compost in place. It probably adds a bit of "radiant floor heating". ;-) In any event it does insulate from the cold ground.
Gall, I too use the deep littler method.. cleaning the same as you.. fluff often, actually, when it needs fluffing, I give the girls GREAT treats and tell them they need to clean their room.. scatter is with a small amount of fresh straw.. and they go nuts for days..
I also think, or so it seems.. In the summer I use larger water containers so I don't have to make as many trips as in the winter... But my water tends to stink.. like... well chicken.. it is odd.. the only "farm" odor I have is from the water.. so I am downsizing my bowls and will just have to continue several water trips a day.. or figure out a way to water.. kind of like a auto drip sprinkler system a time or two a day.
that's a good point, about the moisture buildup and the heater preventing it. I shall have to see what I can do for this winter then, to increase ventilation. Always something new to learn. I do the deep litter too, although I am finding right now, for summer, that there are an awful lot of flies in the coop. I wondered if it was because of the deep litter method. I put up a fly trap but there are still tons of flies.
Claire, maybe you need MORE litter - the bedding might be too damp from too much poop for the amount of litter. If you can stir up the bedding and turn it over and add more litter on top, it might help.
We had a bad fly problem in NY one time but it was from the sheep pen, not the chickens. Too much sheep poop, not enough bedding (although it looked fine on the surface). There was an explosion of flies which only went away once we cleaned out the pen.
Tell your chickens they need to do their part in reducing the fly population! :)
Galles, you're right on the money with what I'v been reading on this subject.
Though I was wondering if the size of the flock had anything to do with their ability to tolerate cold weather. If I keep 8 hens in an 8X10 coop it wouldn't stay as warm as say 20 hens in the same size coop.
msjuris, you could be right on the size of the coop too. Hmmmmmm this is interesting.
Ours are in a smaller coop, and I don't know if everyone else has chickens like us, but they tend to sleep as close to each other as they can. (except for our dumb leghorns in the tree, but they slept right next to each other too). Our coops are smaller, BF did a lot of reading on them before he got them, and he made smaller coops for them.
Gallesfarm, I like the way your roof ventilates the coop.
So do you guys think 2 or 3 smaller coops is better than one larger one?
Does frostbite hurt the chickens? Is it physically painful to them and does it have lasting ill effects?
A rooster suffers greatly from frostbite to his comb--it is stressful enough to cause temporary sterility. Frostbite can result in the loss of toes and feet and can lead to secondary infections. It is not a minor thing--although a little frostbite on a large comb is not uncommon in colder climates.
I found this great artical on frostbite.
http://www.shagbarkbantams.com/page16.htm
That is a great article, kassy_51, not just on frostbite, but chickens in winter generally!
oops sorry for the miss-spell. multi-tasking here just doesn't work. sheeesh I just had to back space this a number of times to get it right. my mind thinks faster them my fingers do :(