Can I plant a garden from 100% seed?

I need some help/advice in an area I know nothing about but would love to learn.

Now that I have spent gazillion$ the last two years on trees, shrubs, perennials, and annuals I am interested in venturing off into the wild, unknown world of cottage gardening from seed.

I know how to do it in theory (broadcast the seeds, rake, and water until sprouts emerge). But what if I want masses, rather than a totally random wildflower look?

What if, for example, I want a large mass of Papaver somniferum 'Lauren Grape' and 'Imperial Pink' planted next to Salvia sclarea var. turkestanica and Dianthus barbatus and Lychnis coronaria?

Do I sprinkle the seeds in groupings?
How many seeds of each separate plant go into the earth? (e.g., do I treat each seed like a containered plant and space 12-24"?)
Do seed gardens bloom ONLY in late spring to mid summer? That is, will everything bloom at once and die at the same time?
How soon do annal cottage gardens die to the ground? As early as August?
Do I continue seeding throughout the season or only once in the spring?
If I live in the northeast, should I put seed down in the fall or would I be wasting the seeds?
Do I have to do this over again every year, or do the "self-sow" plants put down seeds that come up the following year?
Is there an online resource or book I can read about growing seed gardens?

I plant a lot of seeds every year (and yes you can do a whole garden from seed.....there are very few plants that you can't start yourself) but I hardly ever direct sow. Our growing season is just too short here and if I don't give them a head start they barely get going before the first frost comes and wipes them out. I usually start mine indoors....some of them as early as January depending on how vigorous the plant.

You might want to start reading the Piggy Swap threads. Although there is a little off-topic chit-chat from time to time, we mostly talk about seeds. Swapping seeds, starting seeds, caring for seedlings, planting out seedlings, seeds, seeds, seeds. There is a lot of experience on those threads and what one person doesn't know the next probably does.

Thanks, I will do that. How do pigs factor in?

Hi, peony,

I know what you mean about spending so much on plants. I felt the same and so I am learning to grow from seed too. It's actually become fun and a bit of an interesting 'challenge' for me, although I am still much the beginner. And you are right, it is a little more complicated than just throwing seeds out into the garden patch if you want a garden that has a bit of design to it.

There are a couple of forums on DG that I refer to often and that will be of great help to you:

Seed germination: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/germination/all/ (Lots of detail here)

Wintersowing: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/coldsow/all/ (You will really find this one fascinating and something to seriously consider).

Seed Saving/Collecting: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/seedsaving/all/ (I got hooked on the Seed Wrestler's threads. Very funny and good info on how to get lots of free seeds).

Propagation: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/propagation/all/ (I've started learning about how to take 'cuttings' and 'rooting' and this is an easy way to make more plants, too.)

And the 'Piggy' thread' is fun and helpful (and it really has nothing to do with Pigs that I can tell (just the lead-off photo at the top of the thread). http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1002912/ Just one of the many 'seed swapping/trading' opportunities on DG, too.

You will find any of the above forums full of experienced posters who will be happy happy happy to answer even the most rudimentary questions about seed starting.

James Fenton (an English writer) wrote a cute little book called "A Garden on a 100 Packets of Seed" which I enjoyed and which gave me lots of ideas of what to plant. I wish it were still in print. My point is, I guess, that 'yes!', of course it's possible to plant a pretty and interesting garden with just seeds. It does take a bit of planning, patience and some work, too, though.

We will want to watch your progress, so please post lots of pics! t.

ROFL... as I recall, in the first big swap that Suzy hosted, people kept posting lists of available seeds and we all kept speaking up for them, even when we already had long request lists... at some point, somebody mentioned that they were "oinking" for yet another variety of something, and we agreed that we were piggies for seeds. So the term "piggy swap" was coined, and the threads started having pig-theme thumbnail photos. The current threads in the cottage gardening forum have a group of piggies lined up at a trough.

I think winter sowing might also be an answer for you... a container of winter-sown sprouts would give you several clumps of seedlings to form a mass of that type of plant out in your garden. There's lots of info on the WS forum, and I've written a couple of WS articles that might give you a good intro also (click on my name for my home page and scroll down for a list of my articles).

Peony, I think those of us participating in the swap are the pigs, seed pigs that is, LOL. Our requests from someone's seed list were often followed by an "oink oink". I would recommend using some different methods of seed starting depending on the plant you're growing. The Poppies I've found easiest to direct sow in fall or late winter-early spring. I don't direct sow very much, except Poppies and Larkspur- weeds aren't too much of a problem in the cool months when I sow them, so they get a good start before the weeds start growing fast. I've had best luck wintersowing Dianthus and Lychnis, and would start the Salvias indoors under lights.

I've had good luck with everything on your list above self sowing except that particular Salvia. I have some Salvias that reseed, but they usually germinate when its warm and don't have time to reach their potential before frost (that's why I typically start those early inside).

For me, the plants you have listed don't all bloom at the same time. Dianthus barbatus blooms in May, Lychnis coronaria and somniferum Poppies bloom in June and July, and Salvias bloom June through frost.

Wow, great info, links all bookmarked, and thanks for the piggy history, lol.

This forum is *gigantic* and so full of information, I am suffering from a bit of info overload. I've pretty much stalked only the cottage gardening board, and now I'll need to mosey over to the seed threads because I am really interested in starting from scratch.

I'm almost hoping it pours tomorrow so I can read/research without guilt. :-) Now it's back to work for me.

Oh, and the Fenton book is no longer out of print. I just ordered it!

I received the book, A Garden from a Hundred Packets of Seed, today. My vacation starts Friday, and if this month-long rain pattern continues, I should have plenty of time to read.

Hi peony8,

So how is your garden coming along this year? I was just wondering around this morning and came across this thread.

I started my new cottage type garden this year (Moved here last year) and planted everything from seeds. Let me just say - there were very few things that ended up the way I planned!

I started last fall by turning up the soil. That was a chore in itself especially by hand with just me and a shovel! There is much clay and the ground is very hard. So.. right away, I knew my garden would be smaller than I originally set out. It will be mostly edibles. I then began to add compost (which I had started when we first moved here) and some amendments to the soil. I'm ready to start my garden!! I plant some garlic last September and it does great!!

But then ~
First problem... I'm from zone 9, when the heck is spring around here?!!! I plant seeds and here comes another week of mornings below 30*. (dh doesn't want little cups of dirt all over the house LOL so they are also outside getting frozen) what to do?
Fast forward ~
3rd time planting seeds directly in the garden...rains everyday and hard, long rains for days thereafter.

So, not much that I planted ended up where I was planning!! Then again, many seeds washed away and never made a showing. I have a huge tomato plant and melon plant that relocated quite a distance!! I mean the garden is at the front of the house and these plants are across the back yard all the way down near the pond; a good 100+ yards!

I love my garden in spite of all this and next year will be better for sure. But I think starting seeds in containers is a really good idea. :o)

On the other hand, I like surprises and I like the whole cottage garden theme, with everything looking as if it just showed up rather than looking like I put it there.

Starting from scratch is the only way to go for me and my garden will likely ALWAYS be a work in progress!! I have since started another area of garden at the very front of the house. I did this one by transplanting my potted plants in the ground!

Hi, allwild818! I am glad to hear your experience has been positive, despite the challenges.

The cottage garden I planted on June 1 from perennials is doing very well, but I haven't started my seed garden yet.

I only recently started collecting seeds, and I have yet to send in my envelope to get the freebie seeds from the wonderful people here.

Since our growing season isn't that long, and since I started collecting seeds after July, I think it's best if I wait until next spring.

I am going to dig up a new garden sometime before frost and prepare it for next season. I really want to direct sow (mainly because I am a lazy gardener), but I am not sure how much direct sowing I can do. I hate to think of the seeds washing away (especially the rare seeds I got), and I know weeds can be very competitive with the seedlings, making it hard to tell which is flower and which is foe. So I suppose I will look into the whole wintersowing thing.

One great idea someone on this forum gave me is to sow the early spring seeds outside in milk cartons. I can probably sow in March, right on my sunny deck.

I can see what you mean about things not growing where you sprinkled them. If we get enough rain, everything could end up in one spot in the garden. Still, I look forward to starting a garden from scratch, and I can't wait to see some of the unusual hardy annuals come up.

Here's a list of what I will be planting (subject to additions, of course!):

Ageratum houstonianum 'Blue Horizon'
Anagallis monellii 'Gentian Blue' (Pimpernel)
Browallia americana 'Blue Lady'
Centaurea cyanus 'Jubilee Gem' (Cornflower)
Chrysanthemum parthenium (Feverfew)
Cleome hassleriana 'Rose Queen'
Consolida ambigua 'Giant Imperial' (Larkspur)
Cosmos bipinnatus 'Seashells'
Cosmos bipinnatus 'Vega'
Cynoglossum amabile 'Mystery Rose' (Chinese forget-me-not)
Dianthus barbatus (Sweet William)
Digitalis purpurea 'Alba' (Foxglove)
Eryngium alpinum 'Blue Lace' (Sea Holly)
Gilia capitata (Queen Anne's Thimbles)
Hesperis matronalis (Dame's Rocket)
Impatiens balsamina (Balsam)
Ipomoea tricolor 'Heavenly Blue' (Morning Glory)
Lychnis coronaria (Rose Campion)
Nigella damascena 'Persian Jewels' (Love in a Mist)
Papaver laciniatum 'Lilac Pompom'
Papaver orientale 'Princess Victoria Louise'
Papaver rhoeas 'Corn'
Papaver rhoeas 'Dawn Chorus'
Papaver rhoeas 'Shirley'
Papaver somniferum 'Imperial Pink'
Papaver somniferum 'Lauren's Grape'
Salvia sclarea var. turkestanica (Clary Sage)

As you can see, I have a bit of a poppy obsession. I wish I could figure out how to make them last the entire growing season.

Sowing seeds "outside in milk cartons" is pretty much winter sowing, unless you're talking about using cut-off cardboard milk cartons rather than plastic jugs.

Poppies, you might be better off direct sowing in winter... if you winter sow them, the tip seems to be to transplant them when they're really small.

Great list! You've got a lot of enthusiastic reseeders on it (balsam impatiens, morning glory, and nigella are three that have been coming back well for me here). Rose campion will bloom its second year, and you'll get plenty of little volunteers from it also.

Oh, sorry, by winter sowing I meant down in the basement with grow lights and special reflective paper and a fan!

Direct sowing poppies in winter ... do you mean just plop them onto the frozen garden bed some time between December and March? That could be a bit of a challenge for me because we have are generally buried under snow from mid December through the end of March.

I am pretty excited about that list -- especially the poppies and Nigella. And the Cosmos, too. I read various posts that Cleome can be tricky to get started, but then I read in Gardens Gate magazine that it's easy to grow, even invasive.

I planted morning glory my first spring here, but nothing ever came back. This time I will soak the seeds. Maybe one packet isn't enough.

Do people generally oveseed and then thin out (and maybe replant or toss) the shoots?

The "winter sowing" forum is all about starting seeds outside in covered, vented containers. In the basement with lights is "starting seeds inside." :-)

Soaking MG seeds until they swell will definitely help.

If you go to my home page or to this link http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/by.php?user=critterologist you'll find a list of my published DG articles, including several on winter sowing and a series of "seed starting 101" articles (the indoors under lights method). Hope they're useful for you!

Thank you, critterologist! I have bookmarked several of your articles for weekend reading.

Peony, you have a great list of plants! You will have lots of fun starting your garden.

I too encourage you to go to the wintersowing forum http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/coldsow/all/ (after you've read critter's articles, of course) and post all the questions you want to there and they will be thrilled to share tips and advice on how to get seeds started using the milk jugs outside throughout the winter.

It seems like so many of us were introduced to seed starting on the Wintersowing Forum or on the Wintersown website.

I see that you have a lovely garden in store, Peony! So many pretty flowers.

Thank you Critterologist, I think I shall read your articles too!!

You know, I can't hardly stop myself from direct sowing either. I don't even think it's laziness as much as it is I like getting out in the land and digging the dirt. Been that way since childhood..and yes, I was a mud pie maker and eater! And other reasons too but I won't get into how difficult it is for me to do things in a structured way LOL... That's probably why I like a cottage garden theme.

But there are so many seeds that need to be chilled, some for extended periods (like over-winter) before they will even germinate. I will definitely try the milk carton method this fall for wintersowing.

I am going to try winter sowing this year, but I don't drink milk! Any suggestions for alternate containers - soda bottles (already in use as budget self-watering plant pots), coated cans...???? With the exception of diet soda, I don't eat processed food. It looks like I will have plenty of canned tomato cans. I don't believe that my tomato seedlings will ever get big enough to make tomatoes.

I am very disappointed in my seedling efforts this year, but I will try harder next year. With lights, special seed starting soil, advice from my DG cyberfriends .....

I wonder if egg cartons would work. I realize they're biodegradable, but it's not like the seedling will be in them for long.

Meanwhile, I have to admit, I am getting all juiced up for winter growing. I have been wondering what will feed my addiction when I have put my gardens to bed in November, and now I know!

After the above list, I am going to start looking into strictly wildflower strains (genus? I can never remember the taxonomy).

OMG did I mention how I lust for poppies? I bought the only out-of-print book available recently and have been saving it for a rainy day.

I believe you will want lidded containers that will hold about 3 to 4 inches of potting soil and that you can poke with holes for drainage and air circulation for 'Wintersowing".

There are lots of ideas for different containers on the Winter sowing forum. I used rubber maid plastic bins/boxes from the dollar store and I reuse them from year to year. Other gardeners ask friends to save their milk jugs for them.

Wintersowing is fun and easy and I know you'll like it.

Good luck with everything! t.

I already tried egg cartons for starting some seeds. I tried them for seeds that said "careful transplanting" like poppies. (Got 1 poppy from seed. It is even tinier than my tomatoes.) I am also saving sour cream containers and the like.

I have been saving and stacking egg cartons for starting seeds inside. I didn't think about them for winter sewing. Would they fluctuate in temperature too much since they are so small?

I already have a mini cold frame (re-purposed plywood and storm windows).

I learned my lesson about laminated cardboard containers this spring. Don't do it, they fall apart, what a mess.

Oh, forgot another newbie comment about starting seeds. I am better off starting my seeds in containers, transplanting them when they are big enough to recognize. Last year I put seeds directly in the garden and kept wondering, "is this a weed or a seed". If I am not sure, I walk my dog around the neighborhood looking at weeds. Usually I see the same ones around. I never paid attention to the leaves of weeds until I started gardening. This is probably not an issue for experienced gardeners.

Oh, yes, it is too an issue for "experienced" gardeners! I'm trying to grow a lot of different things, and I usually have no clue what the seedlings will/should look like. I am gradually learning to recognize the local weeds at various stages. Last year, I let a whole bunch of uglies get tall because I thought they were Asclepias... nope! LOL

Garden quilts, do you ever buy gallons of bottled water? I think they use the same containers as milk. If you do, you could use those for winter sowing.

Water gallons! We use them in our cats' water fountain (cats don't need fluoride), so I will start saving them. Thanks for the good idea, pgt.

And you don't even have to rinse those out- even better!

I have water filters. You have to filter your water here. We even get boil water advisories. They are warning of a potential flood (again). We always have to boil water when it floods, so I filled a bunch of bottles in advance. I am well above the flood plain, but the main road isn't. My former life as a chemical engineer has left me partial to filtered water. I even have a small distillation system for my espresso.

I have a neighbor saving me milk jugs. I will share some plants, if I get any. I am also saving soda bottles, I do drink a bit too much soda. I also made self-watering planters out of soda bottles, an idea found on another thread. You take off the cap, cut the bottle in half, turn the top upside down in the bottom, cover the hole with mesh, and plant. I posted a pic in the clem forum, my camera is downstairs, will post a pic later....as soon as my newly painted toenails dry.

I have 2 types of egg cartons, regular cardboard (which fall apart and make a big mess but may be alright for fast growing seeds) and styrofoam. I think I may save them for starting inside and keep the larger containers for outside.