I purchased this small Bonsai tree for my son. The more I look at it, the more I really like it. These are quite expensive, so I am wondering if perhaps I could purchase a small shrub/bush of this plant, pot it up, and shape it by pruning it. To do that, I need to know what this plant is. Can anyone help me ID it?
Also, do they have to be grown in shallow pots/containers?
Juniperus procumbens 'Nana'.
Mother nature surely doesn't grow them in shallow pots, so there is no requirement for you to, either. ;o)
Al
I was checking plantfiles and saw that species and thought ... yep! It sure looks like the Bonsai I bought for my son! :-) Thanks!
Now to keep them miniature, do the shallow pots and limited soil help keep them small? Would they go wild in a big pot with lots of soil? Is there a reason for those shallow pots?
Judicious pruning above and below the soil line along with small pots and their accompanying tight roots in combination with full sun, judicious watering, & maintenance levels of fertilizer, keep internodes (the space on the branch where there are no needles emerging) short and reduce branch extension. It also makes leaves & needles smaller.
Xtra-large containers (only in combination with very fast [porous]) soils, and adequate to luxury levels of fertilizer, along with with full sun, promote more robust and coarser growth.
Shallow pots are more difficult to grow in, and they demand a soil that drains more freely than containers that are deeper.
Al
Interesting information, Al. Thanks for clarifying that for me! Makes sense. :-)
A tree in a normal pot would be just that, not a bonsai. You keep them in small pots to control the roots,which need trimming regulary along with the leaves. To create the whole effect of a tiny tree made to look like a big tree, try to keep pots as insignificate as it can be(hense small ones) unless you do cascade which requires a higher pot. Just my 2cents worth..hehe!
Now there you go - getting all technical. ;o) Technically, BONSAI means 'tree in a pot', .... and it doesn't say how big/small the pot has to be to qualify as a bonsai ..... ;o)
I have many trees I've been developing for years, growing in wood boxes or terra cotta bulb pans that have been ready for bonsai pots & are quite beautiful .... so are they not yet bonsai because they aren't in a particular type of container? Is a liner (very small, young tree) or seedling a bonsai just because it's planted in a bonsai pot .... or is it just a liner/seedling in a bonsai pot?
Pots are actually chosen for balance. The size, color, shape, depth of the pot are chosen based on the mass and characteristics of the tree (bark/foliage color, masculine/feminine tree, the style of the tree .....), and compliment the tree w/o becoming the focal point of the composition. Pots can be too small, just as easily as too large.
Al
So balance and composition is what creates a bonsai?
The place where I purchased the featured bonsai also had minature Bougainvillea trained as bonsai. They were in bloom and absolutely gorgeous! Can any tree or bush be trained as a bonsai? Or only certain types of trees/bushes?
Small pots = smaller plants?
Every tree in a pot isn't a Bonsai, even though thats what it means. You can work on trees in normal pots for years to become bonsai's, they usually end up with alot of roots and hard to trim down to fit into a smaller pot when the time comes, stressing the tree. I just think it's easier to kept them in smaller pots and gradually get bigger as tree grows or can be put back into the same pot when roots are trimmed if it still fits.
No a seedling in a bonsai pot is not a bonsai, it has to look like a small tree, it can be shaped into one gradually though.
Yes i understand pots are choosen to suit the tree, I just think Bonsai's are ment to look like a big full grow tree shrunken down into (usually) shallow trays/dishes.
There's alot of trees and bushes that can be used as Bonsai's, figs are one of the easiest and nicest i think. Smaller pots don't necessarilly mean smaller plants!
"..... they usually end up with a lot of roots and hard to trim down to fit into a smaller pot when the time comes, stressing the tree."
Developing trees in large containers, in the ground, or yamadori, are all standard procedures for experienced bonsai practitioners, who don't think much about transitioning the trees from their larger containers or from the ground to pots because they are very familiar with the material they are working with, have the patience to reduce the roots gradually, and realize that being able to perform radical root work over time is a skill that is requisite to becoming accomplished in the art.
I think you missed the point. The trees I referred to, growing in containers other than bonsai pots, are indeed bonsai. They are far more refined than most trees many bonsai practitioners would have had in pots for years, and many could go into a (bonsai) pot this year and be pruned/shown next year. I understand that a liner in a pot is not a bonsai by my standards or yours, but if someone new to bonsai thinks it's a bonsai, then by golly, it's a bonsai as long as I have any dealings with its owner as far as I'm concerned. We don't want to be critical of what a person, especially a new person, 'calls' a bonsai because if told different, it's discouraging. We all had to start somewhere and no one of us was accomplished at the outset.
Yes, bonsai is about perspective and age, or the illusion of age, but there are many hundreds of paths we can take with each individual plant to get to where we want to be. How skillfully we choose those paths determines not only the beauty of the outcome of our choices of paths, but also the speed with which we get there. Growing in large containers or in the ground & transitioning the trees to pots allows me to achieve size in my material that would take a lifetime to develop in a confined pot.
Case in point. A Styrax I grew in a raised bed for 4 years. It was cut back hard after 2 years & allowed to grow wild for 2 more. It has a 3" trunk & was 2 m (6 ft) tall when I lifted & chopped it this spring. It's in about 3 gallons of soil, where it will remain as I refine the tree. I'll graft a root to the nebari on the left side where one is needed. The tree has leafed out nicely after a very radical root pruning to get it to fit the container. I'm sure I'll have no difficulty transitioning this tree into a smaller pot. Material of this size would take more than 30 years to develop in a bonsai pot.
Al
Al - Absolutely fascinating perspective from you! You are definitely on to something in respect to getting a plant to become a Bonsai much quicker than trying to start it as a sapling in a smaller container from the very start. Thank you for sharing your method of creating "older" looking Bonsai with us in a much shorter period of time! You just gave me a whole new way to think about growing and creating Bonsai plants! Thanks so much!!! :-)
Ohh, Becky. ;o) It's not MY method. It's been around for many, many hundreds or even thousands of years & all experienced practitioners use it extensively. Looong ago, there were no nurseries or retail outlets from which to buy little trees as starter material, so almost all the trees were yamadori (trees collected from the wild). Growing trees in the ground or a large container, and cutting them back periodically to develop taper and to give a believable perspective of a tree in nature that might have been shrunken to pot size, allows us to produce trees in a fraction of the time when compared to rearing them in small pots.
My first tree was a J procumbens, just like yours. I attended a workshop about 20 years ago and styled/potted it with help from a man who was old then. I killed that tree from inexperience, and many others that soon followed. I put the trees aside after a year or two & started to study soils and plant physiology. I stuck to it (studying) for at least 4 years, reading everything I could, and never touched a tree during that time. About 15 years ago, I bought another procumbens, which I still have today.
Bonsai has been very rewarding for me - personally rewarding. It is a pastime that literally allows me to get lost in my trees, often with no conscious recognition of how much time has passed during a session of repotting, pruning, wiring, or any of the other attentions the little trees demand. A little classical music and a day, or half-day free of interruptions leaves me feeling like I've had a week's vacation. ;o)
If you're considering taking bonsai up as a hobby, I can give you some unsolicited advice that you can take now, or discover on your own, and that is you'll need to pay a certain amount of dues in the form of educating yourself on how to keep your trees growing with good vitality, year after year. Bonsai is very frustrating if you work on a tree for a year or two, or perhaps only a couple of months, only to have it die as a result of something you didn't understand or something that even intermediate growers know. Old trees (the ones you've cared for for many years) are like old friends, and you don't get old friends w/o paying attention to the relationship, especially when it's new. ;o)
I wish you much success & I hope you end up falling in love with little trees.
Al
Al - Thank you for the encouraging words of advice. Well taken, indeed! I am quite interested in the art of Bonsai. I don't see a sticky thread for this forum topic.
Can you or anyone else give me a website link or perhaps even recommend a good book I could check out from the library about creating and growing Bonsai plants?
I had a Ming Aralia Bonsai many years ago and I had it for years. Something eventually sickened this beautiful Bonsai and it died. I was heartbroken and sick to my stomach about it. I tried desperately to save it, to no avail. That was my first experience with Bonsai and I've been mesmerized ever since. I would love to learn more. I don't expect to become a master or anything, but would like to try my hand at it.
What is the easiest and hardiest plant to grow as a Bonsai?
In my estimation, for a very good overview of bonsai the Sunset Publishing book 'Bonsai' is an excellent and inexpensive place to begin, There are several editions, but the latest (2003) is far superior to earlier editions (translated = get the 2003 edition). ;o) Search for it on the net using: ISBN 0-376-03046-1, or call Sunset @ (800) 525-5111.
Al
Thanks, Al! I will do just that!
Are there any good websites that explain more detail to wiring and shaping the trees. As well as digging up, pruning roots and branches, and repotting into a shallow dish?
I have several of these very small leaf bushes in my front garden bed. They are so short that they get lost in there. They serve no purpose and are often neglected and ignored. I want to dig them up and grow them in pots in my backyard and am considering the idea of making them Bonsai trees. I don't remember what this particular bush is, but it is very slow growing. Being in a sandy and very hot and dry area of my yard, the leaves are often yellow and the bushes sure don't look their best. They are struggling to survive in that location. I would love to give them a second chance as something more prominent in my backyard garden. I have 6 of these in the same area of my front garden and want to move all of them. What do you think?
I need some very precise information about creating Bonsai trees from those originally grown in the ground. I need information about hard pruning the roots and branches, shaping the bush with wire, and transplanting them into shallow pots. So if anyone knows of any good websites about doing all of this, I would sure appreciate it if you would share those sites and their internet link with me! Thank you!
This message was edited Jun 22, 2009 1:58 PM
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics.html
Your bush is a Buxus (boxwood) and many species of Buxus make excellent bonsai. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=buxus+bonsai&gbv=2 You may want to consider growing them in containers as topiaries after you learn how/when to lift them, until you get your bonsai feet on the ground. ;o) Many species of Ficus, schefflera, myrtles, Eugenias, Carissa, .... are just a few of the plants that are good starters for FL.
The information you need won't come over night, and it won't all be found in 1 book, or even 10, but if you really want to pursue the art, you can't start too young. I'd suggest that you find a club near enough to join, and try to wheedle your way under the wing of one of the more accomplished in the club. ;o) Experienced practitioners are a trove of knowledge about growing things in containers and are usually willing to share.
It will serve you well if you make learning about soils and plant physiology goals of a status equal to the goals of learning the techniques associated with the art.
Good luck. ;o)
Al
Al - Great website! Lots of good information that I needed to read. THANK YOU!!!
I see that there is a LOT more involved than my erroneous idea of digging up my boxwood bushes, pruning the heck outta the roots and branches, and sticking them in the right Bonsai pot with the right soil mix. Way more research and a lot more time physically involved in such a creation. I see what you mean about never starting too young. This is a long term plant hobby that takes years to make even one Bonsai tree. Time to do my research, find the right tools, pots, soil (I was quite intriqued by the use of NAPA auto parts freshwater diatomaceous earth in 25# bags, of which I immediately located a store near me!), and correctly growing the right plant in the ground until it is ready for a bonsai pot. Years!!!! WOW! Duh ... that was a bit of a surprise. I knew they grow like that for years and years, but I didn't know it required preparing a bush years in advance as well. I was really interested in growing them over a piece of tile to make the roots shallow. Very fascinating!!! And growing the roots over a rock! Holy Cow! Is that ever cool!!! No wonder Bonsai plants are so expensive! I paid $25 for the tiny one I bought for my son, thinking that was a bit over-priced for the size. But now I see all the work involved.
I do have a question though. The person I bought the Bonsai from had quite a few pots of juniper and told me if I preferred to have him make me a Bonsai, that I could pick out which potted Juniper I wanted and he would make it up for me in a Bonsai dish. I am now wanting to go back and have him make me one just so I can see how he does it. He was pretty matter-of-fact about it. Maybe junipers are different than boxwood? Shallower roots?
I am just fascinated with this plant art form. Very cool, indeed!!
Thanks for all your wonderful suggestions, Al! I really appreciate it! :-)
"This is a long term plant hobby that takes years to make even one Bonsai tree."
Well, it IS a hobby that can satisfy your need to nurture for a lifetime and offer a great deal of satisfaction for as long as you're able to pursue it, but not all trees that look believable as a bonsai take that long. Everyone has different standards. I tend to about 200 plants in various stages of development, not including cuttings or those in the ground (at least another 100), but I'm not in a hurry to get any tree into a bonsai pot until I'm sure it will believable (look like a miniature version of a large tree) after a few years of branch refinement.
Some individual trees and also some species of trees can allow you to make something that is quite believable as a bonsai within the course of a single demonstration, but most of us choose not to do so much radical work at one time that it jeopardizes the viability of the plant. So, you CAN make a believable bonsai out of SOME trees in one sitting, but most practitioners choose not to unless it's a demonstration styling session.
I start lots of long cuttings that I poke through a small hole I drill in a round piece of lexan & bury. The cutting goes through the hole & the lexan disk is buried about 2-3" deep. The cutting thickens against the sides of the hole & water/nutrient flow is shut off. New roots emerge (usually very evenly) around the trunk immediately above the disk. The result is flat, (hopefully) perfect nebari (root flare & spacing). After I'm sure the cutting has rerooted above the disk. I lift the plant, adjust the root's position, cut the lower part of the cutting off, rotate it in the ground 180* so what was the north side faces south, and replant to grow on for a few years.
About your new tree: I don't think I'd buy anything right now that was recently repotted. The middle of summer in FL is not a good time to be repotting junipers. ;o) If you want another - perhaps something that is well-established in a pot would be better, or hold off until spring so you can watch him repot your tree. Maybe you could talk him into letting you watch him repot someone else's tree? ;o)
Al
