Much to my surprise, the H. obovata X H. carnosa cross that I have had bloom pure white and pale pink...blooms deep pink at Ted Greens'. They are, of course, different seedlings... wish I had given him a different plant!!!!!
Seedling flower colors
Wow! That's a obovata x carnosa cross? I do remember seeing a photo of another with white blooms. I loved the first one and added it to my future wish list and I really love the pink bloom too!
Here is my flower.... Same seed pod...all seedlings from same pollination.
That's amazing!!! dark pink flowers look like Ban ngong nuy or jungle garden.
Carol,
Did you pollinate the flowers or was it natural? I would guess that if it was natural, the pod plant was pollinated by more than one plant and that would/could account for the difference in flower colors.
Just a guess...
Mike
Good thought, Mike. But I think that it would have had to be a different pod if it were a different pollinator. One pod per pollinator....
H Carol,
No, I think that each viable seed is the result of an individual grain of pollen and that is why there is variability in the seedlings. If all of the seed was the result of one grain of pollen, all of the seedlings should be identical. It's similar to corn/sweet corn, in that there are sometimes kernels missing on the cob and that is because that particular corn kernel did not get pollinated.
The other thought is that the plant that was the pollinator, was not pure and has a mixed background and that could/would account for the difference in flower color. Growing conditions can also change flower color, but usually not to that extent.
Just my .02 (:o)
Mike
Hmmmm. Gotta look into that! The pollinator was/is H. carnosa and it IS possible that H. carnosa was/is a seedling itself! For instance...I know that the different seedling of a cross between H. lauterbachii x H. coronaria are all similar, but differ slightly (cv. Monette, cv. Isabella, cv. Margret). I am currently growing out some seedling of cv. Black Star to see how they are going to look...pretty sure it was self pollinated but...who knows.
Another question... does anyone know how long a seedling takes to bloom? How old is Ted Green's plant that is blooming the dark color?
A couple of years??? Less? More? I'm sure that being in Hawaii has its advantages and there will be a difference in time between seedlings grown in Hawaii and seedlings grown in Minnesota. (:o)
Thanks,
Mike
Mike...This seedling bloomed for me, the first time in the first year. 3 others bloomed the second year. One has not bloomed. If grown ANYwhere with the proper conditions, the plants in MN or Borneo should not bloom differently, they all bloom differently!! I heard a story about a woman who had a 12 year old carnosa that NEVER EVER bloomed. So she took 3 cuttings of it, and 2 of the 3 bloomed in 2 years. Go figger!
My theory is that plants have a time clock (and remember, epiphytic plants are all rooted at nodes. If I don't spray herbecide on the whole philodendron climbing the tree, the nodes where I miss hitting the leaves will continue to grow!!! I think hoyas are similar... Eriostemmas do root on trees and sometimes continue to grow from that healthy root after the plant is destroyed at the ground or higher up in the tree. Plants, like everything, have a purpose to reproduce... Ted Green hangs his out in the full sun to stress them into blooming. The plants thinks "OMG, I'm gonna die in this heat....quick, I have to reproduce so I live on".
Hope this helps.
Talked to Ted about pollination and he believes that there are always variations in seedlings. I am getting a cutting of his dark flowered clone, and will grow it out in a pot with the other two colors and see if they change any coloration.
Hi Carol,
Great minds think alike - I was just going to suggest you get Ted to give you a bit back! People often think that all plants from a cross will be identical - like the F1 Hybrid vegetable seeds, but when you are crossing natural species, or even first and second generation fertile hybrids it doesn't work like that. Every time a plant makes male and female reproductive cells (pollen and ovules) the genes get reshuffled by being split up in different combinations. When you put the pollen on the stigma and create seeds, every seed will be more or less different. Orchid growers use the "grex" idea to keep track of parentage - we might find in time that that would work for Hoyas once there are more Hoya hybrids doing the rounds.
To use your example above, H. lauterbachii x H. coronaria would be the grex which would be given a name by the first person to produce it (how about 'Big Hawaii'?) from the point of registration onwards (you need a central registering authority, to keep track of the grex names and named hybrids), every plant produced worldwide from crossing H. lauterbachii and H. coronaria would be called H. Big Hawaii so you would have H. Big Hawaii 'Monette', H. Big Hawaii 'Isabella' and H. Big Hawaii 'Margret'. You can see immediately that these three plants are siblings, or "sisters" if you will. There is a really good explanation of the grex concept here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grex_(horticulture). It is neat because it removes unworkable complex plant names from your labels, but it still allows complete tracking of ancestry for any specified plant.
If anyone is now wondering why all F1 vegetable hybrids are identical it is because the two parent strains have been inbred alone for so long (linebred) that they have very little natural variation anyway. The big seed companies raise their ovule crop and their pollen crop from these "pure" lines every season, make the single cross to produce the F1 hybrid and sell you the seed every year, thus lining their poackets!
Ciao, KK.
KK...that tells me alot more. Ed would refer to the same 'crop' of seeds as being from the same 'grex' so I knew what it meant but not how it is used in hibridization. Man...learning what to uppercase and what NOT to uppercase is so beyond some people, I wonder how grex would work... ARGH.
Another example of differences:
On June Blooms, Joni posted a photo of cv. Margret she received from Ted = I have attached it. Ted received his plant from the same original seedling and now mother plant cv. Margret. It is a flower from the mother plant (we are NOT talking different seedlings, we are talking cutting of the same plant.
Here is a flower on the mother plant. The flower above is a cutting of this flower...different areas and different stage of blooming. Ted has another cutting from the mother plant that is about 3 shades darker than this flower.
MISTAKE: Ted Green has a cutting from the Dark Pink flower (mother plant) which is a light pink, almost tan, with darker stripes. So we have 3 variations.
This message was edited Jun 26, 2009 4:09 PM
This message was edited Jun 27, 2009 6:10 AM
Whoa!
I'd be tempted to say someone made a mistake! Barring that (and more seriously) I'd suggest environmental influences, such as the relative age and size of the plants, different micronutrient uptakes and variations in solar exposure - nice to know in advance that the plant is capable of that much variation though! It's always good to get to "know" a plant - to grow a plant under many constraints and see how it performs - many plants have astounded me over the years with their differences from one season to the next.
In addition there is also the possibility of chimerical inheritance or even the development of sports - perhaps the hybrid is slightly genetically unstable and a small environmental change can act as a "switch" to turn on different genes. For a start I'd like to know the PH of the soils that the different plants are growing in, this could be a case of the Blue/Pink "hydrangea" effect where you can have genetically identical plants with either blue or pink flowers. Food for thought.
Ciao, KK.