It is always interesting to me to find out what fertilizers others are using and how they are using them. For example, do you use a granular or liquid? Foliar or soil drench? Suppliments like Epsom Salts or Borax, Messinger? How often are you feeding? Brands and where do you find them? Just being nosy here. :-)
This is Delice Amore, isn't she pretty.
The reason I am asking is that I have been using Space City Hib fertilizer, per their directions, with mixed results. My plants look very healthy and green but the buds are few and far between. We have had an unusual amount of rain, way more than normal, this year and I am wondering if perhaps the plants need a booster to make up for what likely has been washed away.
This is Zelma in still another color phase. This one seems different with each new flower. Her flowers are only lasting one day but it is a young plant; maybe that will change as it matures.
Ardesia, I use HVH's (Hidden Valley Hibiscus) custom fertilizer and so far I have had excellent results from it. They are granules that are dissolved in water. It has an 18-5-23 NPK ratio. Snug, :o)
I use HVH's controlled release fertilizer. I am very lazy about fertilizing things so for me controlled release is the best solution.
I'm using Plantex plus 17-5- 24 and am having good results. I'm going to start foliar feeding every other week with Potasium nitrate to see if it makes any difference.
Hey Alice,
Thanks for bringing up this topic.
Well here's what I have come up with. I've been doing literally thousands of plants for several years now, I am so sorry but all of the hype of hibiscus growers selling their special formulas are BullS@@T. ( I am sorry but I am so tired of these people saying theirs are better because they have this and that.
Ok Here’s the deal…..
So I am a grower and the more I convince you to buy a pound of something that I say works, the more $$$$$ I make!!! I may buy a 25 pound sack for $60.00 because I can and then I’ll sell it to you for $10.00 a pound…. so thats $250.00 off of $60.00 that I have spent... And dont think i am not going to charge you for the fancy container..... Cha Ching so lets put a pinch of potassium nitrate to add more micronutrients or not, just say I did and charge an extra $150 per 25lb bag. Better yet just SAY my Miracle Grow is better than your Miracle Grow just because you are gonna believe me because I do this for a living and you have to believe me.....…And better yet why not buy my gardening tools with my name on them because they prune like no others (LOL)
If you have the money waste it, if not than here’s what you do....…
Remember Frequency and proportioned amount. Not too little and not too much. If you understand this, you are right on the mark. I suggest by hand, fertilize every 7-10 days. I have a 20-10-20 that I run through my drips and I have excellent results. My 4” pots are not on drips. 1 of my good friends at a large nursery in La. uses an Azalea fertilizer if I am not mistaken and it does wonders. Blooms are abundant foliage is beautiful and lush. No special blend there!!!!!!!
Again, It's more about the frequency and proportioned amount. On my drips I mix 20 gallons of water to 18 lbs of fertilizer and 2 lbs of potassium nitrate. Ratio is 100 to 1 on my injectors. Different climates provide different results.
On the ones I fertilize by hand ( I know I am about to tick some of y’all off here but I use GENERAL PURPOSE MIRACLE GROW (24-8-16) Has all of the micronutrients you need! Go to Walmart and get it. CHECK OUT THAT MIDDLE NUMBER EVERYONE WARNS US ABOUT..... "8" is that just awesome or what!!!! Now don't get the MG bloom booster... REMEMBER THE NUMBER "8" IN THE MIDDLE.....
PLEASE NOTE: When you drip using a injector, you fertilize each time you water in trace amounts. Blooms will be more abundant because you basically have them on a intravenous drip or an IV….. Fertilizing by hand will give you good results but may not bloom as well. Have you ever wondered why you get a beautiful plant loaded with buds from a nursery or mail order, it blooms it’s cycle and you don’t see another bloom for a few weeks. IT’S HAVING WITHDRAWELS!!!!! Yep your plants go through them too!!!!!
I will sell you the 20-10-20 but I'd rather y’all save the money and basically get the same results with MG 24-8-16. Also, once a month use 1 to 2 tablespoon of epsoms salts per gallon of water for more magnesium. Keeps the bush nice and lush. If you use drips I'd pour it by hand because it will stop up the drip heads.
Oh and by the way I have some guaranteed bloom fertilizer along with oceanfront property in Arizona for sale. My experience is keep it simple ,usually simple works. All the fancy talk is just that. All the special blends are for marketing and yes the all mighty dollar.
Great time released are Osmocote and Green Diamond. I could put my label on it and sell it to you for $10.00 more but I am to tired for that now. Sometimes my lack of energy makes me use these in my 15 gallon pots. The only problem I have had here with it is too much is released and my plant dies from burned roots....
I may have left some things out but the point is there.
DISCLAIMER:
Just my experience and opinion..... You can take it or leave it..... Also this was not written to offend or discredit anyone or their products and marketing.
Sincerely,
Robert
Thanks everyone. Robert, I may just try MG for an extra boost right now. I know Eclipse used MG on all his hibs and no one has more beautiful flowers than he does.
I have looked into the California fertilizers before and they would just be too expensive to ship to the east coast right now. I could probably buy two more plants for the postage costs alone.
Thanks for the info Robert...
I buy a 25 pound bag for 40 dollars at a supply store a half hour from me. Maybe i'll try putting a pound of pound of potassium nitrate in my tank instead of foliar feeding. The Black Jack I got from you is doing great. I tell everyone it is a survivor from ike.
This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 9:45 AM
Hi Alice and Jon
Alice, Give it a try. I thought kyle came back again. did he step out? I miss seeing his blooms.
Jon,
Glad to hear about blackjack. I had 11 blooms on mine today. It was beautiful. I just did not get out to take PICS, So none to post. What ratio are you dripping? BTW The cheapest I've found 20-10-20 is about $50.00 per 25 pound bag. Looks like you did get a good deal. By all means drop some Potassium nitrate in. I use it religiously in my drips.
The drips are on my stock plants too which I am proud to say have reached the 600 mark. Next year looks like it will be good. We get to pick and choose next year and not be strapped like we were this year.
OFF TOPIC
With the health problems I've been having, If we have a hurricane destroy us again I am sad to say I will probably retire from growing and just hybridize. We will just have to watch and see. I just dont think I have it in me to go through it again. Total losses from IKE were over 1400 gallons and 3700 4" pots which was this years crop.
Positive Note...
Halee my youngest daughter is my seedling girl. She can't wait to name 1 after her. She says she will know it when she sees it. I trust her judgement. At 1st she was re-planting only. Now she is nicking seeds, planting and replanting. I think after today she is up to 180 4" pots of seedling crosses. We also put a little osmocote in the 4" pots and seedlings. I think by summers end If all make it or live we will be waiting on over 400 or so seedlings to bloom next year. She is into hybridizing too. Actually into it. Looks through the data we have gathered before she will make any crosses. Looking for the best of the best. Especially those that root on their own. If we evacuate for any hurricanes the seedlings are riding with us!!! When they are about 10 to 12" tall, we will put them into 1 gallon pots and then drip them with the others.
Take Care,
Robert
Robert,
I'm saddened by your off topic news and I hope that everything works out for the best; whatever that might be.
d
Hi dee,
We are just praying for a mild season. Rita crushed us and then we had a year off and 3 last year with Ike being the worst. I am not saying we would be out on a mild one, but I just can't handle another total loss. BTW Your babies were shipped today. The small starter pots fit in with the others.
Robert
It's true that people sometimes learn just enough to be dangerous to others. Great example here in a previous post.
Just because young, vigorous hibiscus can be coaxed to look good in a greenhouse environment using inferior nutrients does not mean that hibiscus trying to cope with a non-tropical environment in a hibiscus enthusiast's garden will continue to thrive. As everyone who collects hibiscus knows, one of the big challenges is to keep them alive and blooming. Everyone I know who has 10 or more hibiscus has lost a few and had others decline in performance over time. There are many reasons for this but one of the few things anyone can do to help their hibiscus is provide quality nutrients to the hibiscus.
Although not widely known to those who do not need to know, there really are many grades of each fertilizer ingredient available for use by fertilizer manufacturers. Many grades and many price points depending on quality. The minerals that go into fertilizer differ in purity and type of contaminants as well as such qualities as how soluble they are in water. Some dissolve easily in tap water while others never dissolve or require hot water to dissolve. The contaminants in some ingredients can build up in pots over time and do plenty of damage to plant roots. A few year's experience with young plants in a protected environment does not qualify one to dismiss the importance of high quality nutrients for hibiscus in the real world.
It is also not a good idea to rely solely on trial and error observation in a greenhouse setting. I've also used objective measurements such as lab analysis of the mineral content of leaves of hibiscus to see how they are absorbing fertilizers. I once teamed up with one of the major growers in the world (who were curious about our hibiscus because of how they looked) to determine an ideal foliar mineral content for hibiscus. The results of that objective lab analysis has guided my use of fertilizer ever since.
I've also grown close to 1 million hibiscus from cutting to finished, blooming plant over the last 15 years and have seen over and over the benefits of good nutrient use with hibiscus. This includes not only the well known major and minor minerals that all hibiscus need but also the types of bio-organic nutrients that support the health of hibiscus in ways that go beyond the basic N-P-K formulas. I strongly encourage those with an interest in this subject to continue to pursue if for yourselves.
If anyone wants to settle for the cheapest of mass market fertilizers, be my guest. Just don't be fooled into thinking that your hibiscus will not experience the difference over time. Often that difference will show up when the plants need it the most - during times of stress.
May all your days be filled with an abundance of blooms and healthy, happy plants.
Charles
ardesia your hibs look beautiful and thanks for bringing the fertilizer topic up, least I know now that I wasn't doing it so bad after all since the closes fertilizer I can get down here to high potash, low phosphate and averaged nitrogen is the GENERAL PURPOSE MIRICAL GROW (24-8-16) that Robert uses, I was really frustrated since a 25lbs.(17-5-24) fertilizer bag would cost me $75.00 and another $150.00 for shipping, THANK YOU SO MUCH Robert, also for the tip on using 1 to 2 tablespoon Epsoms salts per gallon of water once a month, didn't know that.
I hope there aren't anymore hurricanes going to Texas for at least the next 20 years, I wouldn't what to see our friend Robert force into retirement sooner than he wants to, and I would also hope to see his youngest daughter Halee take his place when this wonderful friendly man and father finally does so decides to retire.
I give thanks to God every day for letting me join DG and learning so much from so many wonderful people.
Again, thank you all for sharing your experiences and tips and photos, people like you are what makes all the difference in macking this forum so great.
Wilfred
Charles, don't be so upset, no doubt your product is the best in the market right now and your experience is huge in this field, there is no bad intention here but there are so many imitator out there that look and sound the same that many people are fulled by them, second not every body can afford the price of your product even do they would really want to, some times some people have to accept the closes thing to yours at the risk of loosing some precious hibs, no doubt that if I could afford your fertilizer I would gladly do so but instead I have to use and accept a second and third class fertilizers or not use any at all. ether way my hibs are the ones that pay the price, at least I'm trying to maintain them until my economical situation get better and I can afford your fertilizers. I live in a tropical island and no greenhouse and I to have lost a lot of my hibs do to nutrient deficiency, almost one to two per week, nature can be brutal some time, we get all types of extremes for living in the tropic mountain area, extreme rain, extreme drought, extreme heat 105F, and ex trim cold 34F (cold for the tropics) the only thing we don't get is snow (yet). the only thing that saves me is that I propagate lot of my hibs to replace the ones I've lost in natures battle field.
Last year I was going to order some 10 hibs from you but had to pose pone due to income loose and a decrease by 2/3 on my salary earning, I only receive $1,200 a month now and I have a little boy I love very much. hopefully thing will get better for me and I'll be able to buy your hibs and fertilizers.
Wilfred
p.s. Love your hibiscus, someday I will get some for my collection.
This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 11:40 AM
This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 11:30 AM
So Charles,
I have hundred's of customers that use the 24-8-16 with excellent results on a regular basis. Can you explain why??? especially since it is a basically a junk fertilizer in your opinion. I'd really like to know so I can pass this on through mass emails and let them know why they should buy your product. Especially since i am dangerous???? I'll be more than happy to pass the info along.
Robert
Fertilized with miracle grow every 7-10 days. Is there a problem here????
Another happy MG hibbie
This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 11:30 AM
LOVE IS IN THE AIR, WERE EVER YOU MAY GO!
HEY GUYS!, I HOPE THIS DISAGREEMENT AND MAYBE MISUNDERSTANDING DOESN'T GET OUT OF HAND, YOU ARE BOTH GREAT AND WONDERFUL GUYS TO HAVE KNOWN THRUE THIS FORUM WITH LOTS OF KNOLEGE IN THIS FIELD EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT HAVE DIFERENT OPPINIONS ON THE SUBJECT, YOU ARE BOTH FRIENDLY PEOPLE AND I WOULDN'T WHANT TO SEE ANYTHING ELSE BUT FREINDSHIP.
wilfred, YUOR FRIEND
Hi Wilifred, thanks for your comments. But don't worry, I'm not upset in the least. I normally don't bother to comment on such posts and Robert is welcome to promote his hibiscus business and the fertilizer he sells all he wants. However, when he does so by using ignorant (as in uninformed) condemnations of other products that have been developed with a lot of care and research I feel I have an obligation to set the record straight.
My entire goal over the last 15 years has been to develop the best performing hibiscus varieties and to find and offer the best products available for promoting the health of these special plants. Many people who grow hibiscus live in places where their options are limited and they very much appreciate being informed about what is available and having a convenient way to order whatever they need. Space City fertilizer was introduced by TX hibiscus enthusiasts before my time and perhaps is in need of an update, but at least the effort was made to match it to the needs of hibiscus and I can appreciate that. The HVH fertilizer was also created with that in mind, and is based on our research into what gives hibiscus the best chance to survive and perform long term in whatever environment they are in. I stand by my statement that the ingredients in all fertilizers vary tremendously in quality, purity, and effectiveness and in this area, as in many others, you get what you pay for.
Charles
Charles
you jumped my question on MG. Why should I tell customers not to use it, but use yours? I'd really like to know. And I do not see me promoting any business here for me. If I see anything I am discouraging it as far as fertilizer goes.
Robert
I have used Space city and many others use it as well. It is even sold by BWI. Most growers in texas use the professional 20-10-20. So my question is why. I am not condeming it. I am simply saying that MG 24-8-16 does just as well or better. Even Barry schlueter said at 1 time he could not argue with it when we had this discussion over a year ago.
Robert
This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 12:09 PM
Robert, I'm happy to oblige with a short review of MG 24-8-16. The horticulture science of fertilizers is complex and developing. I make no attempt to deal with the fine points here.
These are the ingredients in MG 24-8-16 and my comments, based on an MSDS filed by Scotts who makes or at least markets it.
3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Components of MG 24-8-16
Urea - cheapest source of nitrogen for fertilizer use. Highly soluble and leaches from pots or soil very quickly. Best use is in hot weather which helps with chemical reactions needed to turn urea into plant usable nitrogen. No nitrate nitrogen in this formula which is a drawback.
Potassium Phosphate - provides phosphorus and potassium in an acidic and highly soluble form
Ammonium sulphate, (NH4)2S04 mostly used to acidify alkaline soils while providing some nitrogen as ammonium.
Potassium chloride, KCl - cheap and potentially harmful form of potassium due to the chloride. Better fertilizers are made with potassium nitrate or other forms of potassium.
Iron EDTA . OK, but there are better, more absorbable forms of chelated iron.
Manganese EDTA
Copper sulphate, CuS04 - cheap, should be chelated form
Zinc Sulfate Anhydrous - cheap, should be chelated form
Boric acid, H3B03
Sodium molybdate, Na2Mo04+2H2
Magnesium is missing altogether. So is calcium although there are reasons for that.
Conclusion: Major NPK ingredients are the cheapest that are suitable for fertilizer and have drawbacks such as being too easy to leach out of pots and soil and containing non-desirable elements such as chloride. Minor minerals are not effectively chelated or not chelated at all which makes them less usable by plants. Magnesium is missing. The overall balance favors nitrogen and plant growth at the expense of blooming. A low middle number as you point out is desirable but equally desirable is a high last number, and this one is too low. Potassium does many good things to hibiscus, including improving bloom number and size and color. I surely would not sacrifice extra potassium for more urea nitrogen....
Think of it like this - someone could tell you that they know dozens, even hundreds of kids who eat fast food for almost every meal, never pop any vitamins, and those kids are apparently thriving. Therefore fast food and no diet supplements must be a fine diet. Yet most of us realize that eventually that diet will cause them to become less healthy than their genetic potential allows for. Yes, it supplies calories and the major nutrients of fat, protein, and carbohydrates but that is not sufficient to promote the best human health that each person's genes allows for.
That is the equivalent situation when using/recommending fertilizers of the quality of this MG fert. It will keep some plants alive and growing, but is it the best you can do for them? I don't think it is.
Charles
Well there you go folks,
Like I said It was my opinion and experience which Charles Black regards as DANGEROUS and that I am IGNORANT. Take it or leave it. I have never had any problems. I use Peters 20-10-20 through my drips and never had problems. I use MG 24-8-16 to water by hand in the harshest weather elements known to mankind!!!! I've been growing these hibbies for at least 15 years, just not professionally that long and I've been using MG as long as I can remember.........
I'll continue to use it and plug it.......
Happy growing and laugh out loud. I know I am!!!
Robert
This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 2:59 PM
